Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 17:14:01 12/18/01
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On December 18, 2001 at 12:11:04, Christophe Theron wrote: > > >Let's put it with some tact: > >1) if a program needs a special book to play correctly and cannot stand to use >the same book as its opponent, then it SUCKS. Let's go for _more_ tact. :) That statement is _utter_ _poppycock_. I have no idea how strong a chess player you are, but my guess is relatively weak. Take _any_ GM of your choice, and let _me_ pick an opening for him to play. And pit him against a good IM that _knows_ that opening. And most likely the IM will win. IE I can hardly imagine Korchnoi playing anything other than 1. d4 for important games. How would he do if _forced_ to play 1. f4? Which is a perfectly playable opening for white. Or take a program that is better in endgames, and as a result, has been directed to play openings that avoid sharp tactical positions in its normal book. And it has been tuned to play that way. Then does it suddenly seem reasonable to take it "out of water" and expect it to fly when it has been swimming for years? Hardly... > >2) if a program is not able to perform well with ponder=off when its opponent is >also ponder=off, it SUCKS. I won't disagree. But it might be that the _author_ sucks because he doesn't worry with tuning his engine for ponder=off since hardly anyone uses it that way, _particularly_ the author. :) > >I do not think 1 and 2 apply to Crafty. > >No matter what Bob tells, I have yet to see any proof that Crafty is handicapped >by ponder=off. As far as I remember, results have shown that Crafty does not >perform worse in ponder=on than in ponder=off matches. > Hard to say. But it has definitely had time problems. I have tweaked the code from time to time, but it is pretty "ad hoc" as is... >And this apply to most if not all chess engines. > >I also do not see any reason to believe that Crafty is more handicapped than >Fritz by a book that has not been designed specially for it. Depends. If the book is fritz's book, and crafty has to use it, it might favor positions that Fritz likes but not Crafty. It might favor positions that Crafty likes but not fritz. And the book can be a major influence in matches in such cases, either way. > >I could even say that a commercial program, which is supposed to be helped by a >hand tuned book, should be the most handicapped of the two. > > >I find Pavel's experiment interesting and I think it tells a lot about the >respective strength of Crafty and Fritz. I'm pretty sure additional experiments >will confirm this result, independantly of the time controls and book, and >ponder setting used. > >Those who reject the result do it for very strange reasons. Actually I think >they would reject the result of any experiment. In this world you need to be >able to draw conclusions (including margin of error in your conclusion) from an >unperfect experiment setup, using your own experience and understanding of the >experiment field. > > > > Christophe
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