Author: Frank Quisinsky
Date: 12:02:39 12/20/01
Go up one level in this thread
On December 20, 2001 at 14:04:24, Christophe Theron wrote: >On December 20, 2001 at 11:28:37, Frank Quisinsky wrote: > >>On December 20, 2001 at 06:54:21, Georg Langrath wrote: >> >>Hi, >> >>for me is absolutly clear, that commercial computerchess is in 2-3 years to >>70%-80% death. Commercial programs are in the future only interesting for the >>market, big shops or so. >> >>In 2-3 years we have more good freeware GUIs, more strong and free available >>engines. The hardware is faster, top programs are maybe 50 ELO better to compare >>the best free available engines or not better. >> >>Commercial firms must thinking about better concepts for the next years. In the >>past people spend money for games and I sure in the past for engines. And now ? >> >>Chess server :-)) >>5 years available in USA :-) >> >>We have only ~ 8 professionls, 120-150 WinBoard engines, other chess software. >>People must learn with time. Yesterday we love MChess, today Yace and tomorrow >>Leila. >> >>The work from all programmers is important and not the work from 1-2 programmers >>which not go with time and own concepts. > > > >120-150 amateur Winboard chess engines, 90%-95% of them being essentially >partial Crafty clones (I mean using the same techniques, or only a subset of the >same techniques). > >I know you love these engines, but I fail to see what they are doing for the >general audience interest. > >They are great achievements by the programmers, and I would not deny that. I >know how a programmer feels when its engine works and starts winning games. I >have felt the same several years ago, so I know they are proud and they are >rightly so. > >But I view them essentially as personal achievements. They will be a >contribution to computer chess only if their author keeps on developping them >for 5 to 10 more years and if they manage to achieve major performance boosts >with NEW techniques. > >Quantity will never replace quality. > > > > >>So, commercial firms must learn a little bit, must more make for user. The best >>example is Christophe Theron ... here available for all user. But the most of >>the programmers make 1x in the year a version, people must give money and not >>more. >> >>We have a new multimedia time, but most of the older top programmers are live in >>the past. >> >>Other, a good example is Steen Suurballe with a WinBoard version for all >>commercial GUIs goes with the time. >> >>Important is, that we all have a nice time with computer chess and must not live >>from commercial computer chess. If people must live from commercial computer >>chess, please better events and new ideas for chess software and not: >> >>Fritz - Kramnik and the 5x Computer Chess World Champion Shredder is sitting at >>home and is looking Micky Mouse. >> >>For the older commercial computer chess guys ... goes with time please or >>commercial computer chess to 90% death in 2-3 years. > > >I agree with you that computer chess companies have to do new things, because >very few people are interested in buying the latest program, when they are still >constantly beaten by CM2100. > > > > > Christophe Hi Christophe, Patzer, Capture, SOS, AnMon, TCBishop for examples are very old programs. Patzer and Capture now 10 years or more. Crafty source code is not 10 years online. I think I can give you x other examples. It is right that other programmers are looking in other source Codes for learning a little bit about chess programming but this is OK. All have own ideas and made the best. Do you think that all top programmers working allone at home :-) Do you think that all top programmers not used technic from other programmers or look also in Crafty source codes. It is right that 8 professionals are playing on a very hight level and the programmers work now a long time on his programs. But do you think if the amateurs works a long time on his programs that also this programs are stronger and stronger. Looked Insomniac. With 17 years James have an engine whitch is a little bit better than Crafty. He work 1 1/2 - 2 years on his program and have a lot of own ideas for the future. How many top programs used Crafty code? :-) OK, OK ... the professionals are playing very strong and all are interesting, but all amateurs are also intersting for me. And ... If Amateurs used Crafty code is this good. Maybe the amateurs find a way to make Crafty stronger :-) Best Frank
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