Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 18:31:41 12/20/01
Go up one level in this thread
On December 20, 2001 at 15:02:39, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>On December 20, 2001 at 14:04:24, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On December 20, 2001 at 11:28:37, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>
>>>On December 20, 2001 at 06:54:21, Georg Langrath wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>for me is absolutly clear, that commercial computerchess is in 2-3 years to
>>>70%-80% death. Commercial programs are in the future only interesting for the
>>>market, big shops or so.
>>>
>>>In 2-3 years we have more good freeware GUIs, more strong and free available
>>>engines. The hardware is faster, top programs are maybe 50 ELO better to compare
>>>the best free available engines or not better.
>>>
>>>Commercial firms must thinking about better concepts for the next years. In the
>>>past people spend money for games and I sure in the past for engines. And now ?
>>>
>>>Chess server :-))
>>>5 years available in USA :-)
>>>
>>>We have only ~ 8 professionls, 120-150 WinBoard engines, other chess software.
>>>People must learn with time. Yesterday we love MChess, today Yace and tomorrow
>>>Leila.
>>>
>>>The work from all programmers is important and not the work from 1-2 programmers
>>>which not go with time and own concepts.
>>
>>
>>
>>120-150 amateur Winboard chess engines, 90%-95% of them being essentially
>>partial Crafty clones (I mean using the same techniques, or only a subset of the
>>same techniques).
>>
>>I know you love these engines, but I fail to see what they are doing for the
>>general audience interest.
>>
>>They are great achievements by the programmers, and I would not deny that. I
>>know how a programmer feels when its engine works and starts winning games. I
>>have felt the same several years ago, so I know they are proud and they are
>>rightly so.
>>
>>But I view them essentially as personal achievements. They will be a
>>contribution to computer chess only if their author keeps on developping them
>>for 5 to 10 more years and if they manage to achieve major performance boosts
>>with NEW techniques.
>>
>>Quantity will never replace quality.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>So, commercial firms must learn a little bit, must more make for user. The best
>>>example is Christophe Theron ... here available for all user. But the most of
>>>the programmers make 1x in the year a version, people must give money and not
>>>more.
>>>
>>>We have a new multimedia time, but most of the older top programmers are live in
>>>the past.
>>>
>>>Other, a good example is Steen Suurballe with a WinBoard version for all
>>>commercial GUIs goes with the time.
>>>
>>>Important is, that we all have a nice time with computer chess and must not live
>>>from commercial computer chess. If people must live from commercial computer
>>>chess, please better events and new ideas for chess software and not:
>>>
>>>Fritz - Kramnik and the 5x Computer Chess World Champion Shredder is sitting at
>>>home and is looking Micky Mouse.
>>>
>>>For the older commercial computer chess guys ... goes with time please or
>>>commercial computer chess to 90% death in 2-3 years.
>>
>>
>>I agree with you that computer chess companies have to do new things, because
>>very few people are interested in buying the latest program, when they are still
>>constantly beaten by CM2100.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>Hi Christophe,
>
>Patzer, Capture, SOS, AnMon, TCBishop for examples are very old programs. Patzer
>and Capture now 10 years or more. Crafty source code is not 10 years online. I
>think I can give you x other examples. It is right that other programmers are
>looking in other source Codes for learning a little bit about chess programming
>but this is OK. All have own ideas and made the best.
>
>Do you think that all top programmers working allone at home :-)
>Do you think that all top programmers not used technic from other programmers or
>look also in Crafty source codes.
>
>It is right that 8 professionals are playing on a very hight level and the
>programmers work now a long time on his programs. But do you think if the
>amateurs works a long time on his programs that also this programs are stronger
>and stronger.
>
>Looked Insomniac. With 17 years James have an engine whitch is a little bit
>better than Crafty. He work 1 1/2 - 2 years on his program and have a lot of own
>ideas for the future.
>
>How many top programs used Crafty code? :-)
>
>OK, OK ... the professionals are playing very strong and all are interesting,
>but all amateurs are also intersting for me.
>
>And ...
>If Amateurs used Crafty code is this good. Maybe the amateurs find a way to make
>Crafty stronger :-)
>
>Best
>Frank
I do not deny that some Winboard engine might be promising.
But celebrating the fact that we have 120-150 Winboard engines means nothing to
me.
Christophe
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