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Subject: Re: Null move and move ordering stats

Author: Dan Newman

Date: 23:06:29 12/20/01

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On December 20, 2001 at 18:44:48, Ren Wu wrote:

>On December 20, 2001 at 18:31:41, Dan Newman wrote:
>
>>On December 20, 2001 at 16:47:29, Ren Wu wrote:
>>
>>>On December 20, 2001 at 15:31:45, Dan Newman wrote:
>>>
>>>>I don't see anything wrong with these numbers.  I get 92.4% with nullmoves
>>>>and 98.7% without on this position.  But my program has hash tables.  It
>>>>also has a fairly complex (and heavily mistuned) eval.  When I run it on
>>>>all 300 WAC positions at 1s/posn I get much the same result (92 and 98).
>>>>
>>>>-Dan.
>>>
>>>What kind of move you search first in case you don't have the move from
>>>hashtable?
>>>
>>>Ren.
>>
>>If I'm in the PV, I do an internal iterative deepening search and use
>>that move.  If not I generate the captures, sort them with a SEE,
>>and use the top one of those.
>>
>>-Dan.
>>
>>P.S.  I tried turning off my hash table and got 90.1% with nullmoves
>>and 99% without.  The searches took quite a bit longer...
>
>Thanks. Seems a good SEE is really important factor here.
>
>See my another post
>http://www.icdchess.com/forums/1/message.shtml?202825
>
>Can you try enable hashtable, but disable SEE?
>
>Ren.

I turned on the hashtable and turned off the SEE and now get 82%
with nullmove, 94.9% without.  That last seems a bit high, but I
don't see anything wrong with my counting...  I guess the hash
table (or IID) moves are usually pretty good.

When I first tried SEE I compared it to MVV/LVA.  The SEE wasn't much
better for short searches because it was so much more expensive,
but even a small improvement in move ordering gets greatly amplified
as the depth goes up.  Since it was an improvement I kept it.  Then
later when I used it to order losing captures after killers and to
prune the qsearch, it was even better.  These two things you can't
really do with MVV/LVA (I tried :)).

-Dan.



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