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Subject: Re: Fritz7 or Shredder6 better for long (tournament) games?

Author: Christopher A. Morgan

Date: 10:54:25 01/01/02

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Blackjack is a game that can be beaten with proper play, meaning the player has
about a 1-2% advantage over the house.  It is well known, however, that even
with best play and this advantage over the long run, a player can have long
losing streaks, some lasting months while playing 3-4 hours a day, and that just
due solely to the mathmatics of statistics.  To test any given strategy/betting
simulation the number of blackjack hands in the simulation, to be accurate, is
in the hundreds of millions, not hundreds of thousands, very easily accomplished
on today's computers.  If you study the game of blackjack, and get some of the
available simulation programs, you will understand Chris' statement very
clearly. The difference among the top chess programs falls in this 1-2% range,
and without playing a substantial number of games, determining which program is
better is nothing more than a guess.

Chris





On January 01, 2002 at 13:01:01, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On January 01, 2002 at 11:05:55, Eran wrote:
>
>>Please see the following list that comes from the Rebel homepage below.
>>
>>RANKING after ROUND-12
>>                       Tournament: Odyssey-2001
>>Place    Name                          Sco      MBch Buch Ws
>>-------------------------------------------------------------
>>  1   SHREDDER5, (1)                   9.5       66   78½  7
>>2-3   REBEL-CENTURY4, (10)             8.5       66   81   7
>>      GAMBIT-TIGER14.6, (2)            8.5       63   77   6
>>4-7   NIMZO8, (20)                     7.0       67½  81½  6
>>      YACE BERLIN, (24)                7.0       65½  79   4
>>      CRAFTY 18.12, (19)               7.0       61½  73½  6
>>      GANDALF432H, (11)                7.0       61   74   5
>>8-12  PHARAON 2.5, (12)                6.5       66   77   4
>>      FRITZ7A, (8)                     6.5       65½  79½  4
>>      CHESSMASTER8000 1.0.4., (6)      6.5       63½  74½  5
>>      SHREDDER4 CHESSBITS, (5)         6.5       58   69   3
>>      VIRTUAL-CHESS2, (7)              6.5       52   60½  5
>>13-16 CHESS SYSTEM TAL2.03, (14)       6.0       56   69½  2
>>      HIARCS7.01, (4)                  6.0       55½  65½  4
>>      LITTLE-GOLIATH2000V3, (16)       6.0       55   63½  4
>>      REBEL-TIGER14.6, (3)             6.0       55   63   3
>>17-20 JUNIOR7, (9)                     5.5       68½  81½  3
>>      PATZER311B, (17)                 5.5       67   80   3
>>      MCHESS8, (23)                    5.5       63½  73½  4
>>      GROMIT 3.8.1, (26)               5.5       58   68   3
>>21    GENIUS6.5 CZUB-STYLE, (21)       5.0       58   68   3
>>22-23 ZARKOV4.5T, (13)                 4.5       61   71½  3
>>      WCHESS2000, (15)                 4.5       57½  67½  2
>>  24  COMET B36, (18)                  4.0       56½  67½  3
>>  25  SOCRATES X, (22)                 3.5       54   62½  3
>>  26  EUGEN7.92, (25)                  1.5       55½  65½  0
>>
>>You see that Shredder5 is still on the first place so far and Fritz7a on the
>>nineth place, how come?
>>
>>Eran
>
>
>
>You still have to learn a lot about statistics and margin of errors...
>
>Short story: there is too much randomness in a tournament like this one. You'd
>better trust the SSDF list, where each program has played many many games before
>it gets a rating.
>
>If you don't believe it, run a "virtual" tournament where you decide the outcome
>of the games by flipping a coin. All participants under these conditions should
>be perfectly equal, but you will see one performing extremely well and the other
>one performing extremely badly. How comes? Statistics...
>
>
>
>    Christophe



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