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Subject: WHAT !!!!! NO WAY (thats about 10bits/position) HOWWWWWW????

Author: Nino

Date: 14:10:42 01/04/02

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On January 04, 2002 at 05:14:16, Dann Corbit wrote:

>Suppose that we want to make a tablebase file that is not quite so good as a
>Nalimov tablebase file, but it still gives us a lot of information and is very
>compact.  Let's consider this winning position
>[D]r6r/8/8/3k4/8/3K4/6R1/4QR2 w - - acn 2125; acs 0; bm Qe4+; ce 32760; dm 4; pv
>Qe4+ Kc5 Rc2+ Kb5 Rb1+ Ka5 Ra2#;
>
>Now, as anyone knows, the queen being a sliding piece with a lot of available
>options, any of these positions will result in the same sort of direct mate in
>4, because we will arrive at the same position, or a mirror of it:
>r6r/8/8/3k4/8/3KQ3/6R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/8/3K4/4Q1R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/8/3K4/6R1/4QR2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/5Q2/3K4/6R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/6Q1/3K4/6R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/7Q/3K4/6R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/1Q6/3K4/6R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/3k4/Q7/3K4/6R1/5R2 w - - ce 32760; pv Qe4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/8/3QK3/1R6/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/8/4K3/1R1Q4/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/8/4K3/1R6/2RQ4 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/6Q1/4K3/1R6/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/7Q/4K3/1R6/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/2Q5/4K3/1R6/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/1Q6/4K3/1R6/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>r6r/8/8/4k3/Q7/4K3/1R6/2R5 w - - ce 32760; pv Qd4+;
>5r2/6r1/3kq3/8/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>5r2/4q1r1/3k4/8/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>4qr2/6r1/3k4/8/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>5r2/6r1/3k4/5q2/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>5r2/6r1/3k4/6q1/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>5r2/6r1/3k4/7q/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>5r2/6r1/3k4/1q6/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>5r2/6r1/3k4/q7/3K4/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qe5+;
>2r5/1r6/3qk3/8/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2r5/1r1q4/4k3/8/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2rq4/1r6/4k3/8/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2r5/1r6/4k3/6q1/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2r5/1r6/4k3/7q/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2r5/1r6/4k3/2q5/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2r5/1r6/4k3/1q6/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>2r5/1r6/4k3/q7/4K3/8/8/R6R b - - ce 32760; pv Qd5+;
>
>Now, if we take these positions, and lexically sort them, we can store the
>minimum one into a database and be able to generate all the others from it.
>
>Then, if we have some position and want to see if it is stored in the database,
>we could simply perform the same transformation and lookup the lexically
>smallest entry to see if it exists.  We know that for any analysis our database
>contains, the best move will be at least as good as the value stored (there
>might be a better move, but the selected move will be "At Least" as good as the
>presented analysis.
>
>As you can see, this would also allow partial database files, and it will allow
>their use before they are completed.
>
>The data can therefore be remarkably compressed in some instances.  I have no
>figures for averages, as I have not carefully studied it yet.  But in the
>position above, a single EPD string maps to 32 answers.  Therefore the net
>storage needed for that particular position is 1/32 times the size of a binary
>EPD record.
>

Dan how can this be possible?? You cant store all that information in so few
bits.  What you are saying basically is impossible.  Computer 101 says that a
bit can only have 2 states ...etc etc.  Any other commnets from members out
here?  Since I dont see any they are probably laughing about this "NEW IDEA"

Perhaps it is time for you to explain this in a bit more detail or am I the only
one who does not understand.



>Here is some information on the idea, which came from Les Fernandez:
>ftp://cap.connx.com/pub/les/Least/
>
>A very nice thing about this sort of database is that it is fairly easy to
>produce partial files with lots of pieces in them.



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