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Subject: Re: Chessmaster Perhaps no longer the Fastest Mate Finder?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 05:44:18 01/07/02

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On January 07, 2002 at 05:05:31, Jouni Uski wrote:

>On January 07, 2002 at 04:59:54, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On January 07, 2002 at 04:47:50, Will Bundy wrote:
>>>Hi
>>>
>>> In this position Fritz7a announces mate in 8 in 1 sec!!! I expected chessmaster
>>>to find it in the same amount of time, didn't happen.
>>>
>>>
>>> [D]2R2R2/5p2/p3p2p/4P1pk/7N/P5PP/5P1K/1q6 w - g6 id Fritz 7 - ; bm g3g4;
>>
>>I don't think you can reasonably draw any sensible conclusions from a single
>>position.  Try it on a couple hundred.  If it's faster with a large set of
>>positions, then your conclusion is likely to follow.  If not, then not.
>
>Yes it's very difficult to say anything sure! I have tactical test set with 200
>positions and still I cannot say sure, which program is the best in solving:
>Fritz, Tiger or Goliath. And "toy" programs like Chessmaster I haven't even
>tested.
>
>Jouni

1)people need to give chessmaster high selectivity
if they want it to solve mates fast.

The question was not which program is best in
solving tactical test suites but which program
is best in solving mates.

I also do not consider programs like Fritz for the mate
competition because they often lie about mates
(they can say mate in 7 when the
shortest mate is mate in 9).

I did not check the latest Fritz but
I know that it was truth for previous Fritz versions.

Tiger is also not considered for the competition for the same
reason.

There is another reason not to consider tiger and Deep Fritz
for the competition.

These programs stop to search when they see a mate and do not
care about finding shorter mate when chessmaster yace or Crafty do not have
this problem.

2)I do not consider Goliath as a tactical monster and I believe that
tactics is one of the reasons that it is weaker than
the top programs.
I already posted a position when Little Goliath blundered
against shredder and tactical test suites simply do not
test programs in tactics.

Tactics often does not involve sacrifices when test suites are
usually about sacrifices.

I think that a better test about tactics is simply to give
programs to analyze comp-comp games at 1 minute per move
and to see how many blunders they can find.


The main problem is to define a tactical blunder

I define a move that lose material with no positional
compensation as a tactical blunder.

This is also not a clear definition but a good way to
get a good estimate for the tactical blunders is to search
by a top program for moves that lose at least a pawn in games
when you give it a long time to verify every tactical blunder.

I know that in part of the cases "more than a pawn" can be only
positional evaluation and there may be cases when
the move was not a blunder and the prorgram simply
does not understand the positional compensation
but I still believe that most of the moves that we get
are going to be tactical blunders and
programs that can find more
correct blunders at 1 minute per move are beeter in tactics.

Uri



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