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Subject: Re: 200 games with same program, 2xhardware, percentage of loss and elo

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 15:02:34 01/07/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 07, 2002 at 15:02:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 07, 2002 at 13:40:45, James T. Walker wrote:
>
>>On January 07, 2002 at 10:22:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 07, 2002 at 10:02:37, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>
>>>>It's more or less accepted that a doubling of speed gives only about 50-70 elo
>>>>points increase.  Therefore your chart makes not sense.  If we use a compromise
>>>>of say 60 elo increase the 2000Mhz machine would score approximately 58.5%.
>>>>Also there is no reason for this percentage to vary with time controls using the
>>>>same engine.
>>>>Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>Actually there is a _big_ reason why the data came out as it did.  Look at
>>>anybody's results where they used the _same_ program, but played one copy at
>>>depth=N and another at depth N-1.  At shallow depths, N wipes N-1 out.  As the
>>>depth goes deeper, N does't do nearly as well.  IE 4ply to 3ply, for the
>>>_same_ program, is a 33% deeper search for 4 ply.  For 10 ply vs 11 ply,
>>>the difference is 10% deeper...
>>
>>
>>Hello Bob,
>>What is the point of your post?  I don't see what it has to do with the thread.
>>Can you explain further?  I like learning about stuff like this but you have
>>confused me.
>>Jim
>
>
>Adding one ply of search in a match X vs X will improve the results for
>that side.  But if both programs can search to depth=3 and you add 1 ply
>to one of them, that is a _huge_ advantage.  But if both can search to
>depth=14, then adding 1 ply to one is _not_ such a huge advantage.  I simply
>pointed out that the results that were posted (2x faster hardware produced
>much more lopsided results as the games got faster and faster) were quite
>normal and expected...
>
>Giving one program 2x faster hardware is close to giving it one extra ply of
>search...

The numbers that were posted do not make sense

Here are the numbers that were posted:

1sec  3sec  6sec  10sec  15 sec  20sec  30 sec  45sec  1min  2min  3min 5min

95%   93%   91%    89%    87%     85%    83%     81%     79%  77%   75%  73%


The program that is twice faster is not going to get 95% even at 1 second per
move.

I am not going to argue about the question if there is deminshing returns here
but if there is a diminishing return from depth then something like 62% at 1
second per move and 56% at 5 min per move is more logical.

Uri



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