Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 13:51:19 06/16/98
Go up one level in this thread
On June 15, 1998 at 18:56:12, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >Those are in PGN the 13 opening lines posted by you: > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "9"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. d3 d6 5. exf5 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "25"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. Nc3 fxe4 6. Nxe4 Nf6 7. Qe2 Bg4 >8. d3 Be7 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Nxf6+ gxf6 11. Qxf3 Rg8 12. Qh5+ Rg6 13. O-O * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "D33"] >[PlyCount "17"] > >1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c5 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. g3 Nf6 7. Bg2 h6 8. O-O >Be6 9. b3 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C85"] >[PlyCount "31"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. d3 Nd7 8. >Nbd2 O-O 9. Nc4 f6 10. Nh4 Nc5 11. Qf3 Ne6 12. Nf5 Nd4 13. Nxd4 Qxd4 14. Be3 >Qd8 15. Na5 Bb4 16. Nb3 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C41"] >[PlyCount "41"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. dxe5 Nxe4 5. Qd5 Nc5 6. exd6 Qxd6 7. Nc3 Be6 8. >Qxd6 Bxd6 9. Nb5 Nc6 10. Nxd6+ cxd6 11. Be3 O-O 12. O-O-O Ne4 13. Nd4 Nxd4 14. >Rxd4 d5 15. Bd3 Nc5 16. Bxh7+ Kxh7 17. Rh4+ Kg8 18. Bxc5 Rfc8 19. Bd4 Bf5 20. >c3 Re8 21. Kd2 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "31"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4 7. Nxc6 Qd5 >8. c4 Qd6 9. Nxa7+ Bd7 10. Bxd7+ Qxd7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qe5+ Kf7 13. Nb5 c6 14. >Qd4 Qxd4 15. Nxd4 Bg7 16. Nb3 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "31"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4 7. Nxc6 Qd5 >8. c4 Qd6 9. Nxa7+ Bd7 10. Bxd7+ Qxd7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qe5+ Kf7 13. Nb5 c6 14. >Qd4 Qxd4 15. Nxd4 Bg7 16. Nb3 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "27"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. exf5 Bc5 6. O-O O-O 7. Nxe5 Nxe5 8. >d4 Bxd4 9. Qxd4 d6 10. Bf4 Bxf5 11. Bxe5 dxe5 12. Qxe5 Bxc2 13. Rac1 Bg6 14. >Bc4+ * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "31"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4 7. Nxc6 Qd5 >8. c4 Qd6 9. Nxa7+ Bd7 10. Bxd7+ Qxd7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qe5+ Kf7 13. Nb5 c6 14. >Qd4 Qxd4 15. Nxd4 Bg7 16. Nb3 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "31"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Nxe5 dxe4 7. Nxc6 Qd5 >8. c4 Qd6 9. Nxa7+ Bd7 10. Bxd7+ Qxd7 11. Qh5+ g6 12. Qe5+ Kf7 13. Nb5 c6 14. >Qd4 Qxd4 15. Nxd4 Bg7 16. Nb3 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "13"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. Nc3 Bb4 5. exf5 Nf6 6. O-O O-O 7. Bxc6 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C63"] >[PlyCount "25"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 f5 4. d3 fxe4 5. dxe4 Nf6 6. O-O d6 7. Nc3 Be7 8. >Qd3 Bg4 9. h3 Bxf3 10. Qxf3 O-O 11. Qd1 Kh8 12. Be3 h6 13. Bc4 * > >[Event "?"] >[Site "?"] >[Date "????.??.??"] >[Round "?"] >[White "R9"] >[Black "Diep"] >[Result "*"] >[ECO "C41"] >[PlyCount "41"] > >1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nf6 4. dxe5 Nxe4 5. Qd5 Nc5 6. exd6 Qxd6 7. Nc3 Be6 8. >Qxd6 Bxd6 9. Nb5 Nc6 10. Nxd6+ cxd6 11. Be3 O-O 12. O-O-O Ne4 13. Nd4 Nxd4 14. >Rxd4 d5 15. Bd3 Nc5 16. Bxh7+ Kxh7 17. Rh4+ Kg8 18. Bxc5 Rfc8 19. Bd4 Bf5 20. >c3 Re8 21. Kd2 * > >---------------------------------- > >All moves are played by Rebel 9 and Diep while still in book. I checked these >positions on a PII/300 at one minute per move and from the point of view of Diep >in the first move out of book: > > Fritz 5 Crafty 14.12 Diep Hiarcs 6 >1- -0.50 -0.53 -1.00 >2- -0.16 -0.20 -0.84 >3- +0.06 -0.20 -1.01 >4- 0.00 -0.16 -0.24 >5- -1.25 -1.13 -1.16 -1.46 >6- -1.06 -1.87 -1.24 -1.48 >8- -0.56 -0.45 -0.58 >11- -0.63 -0.88 -0.78 >12- -0.13 -0.59 -0.44 Thanks for your evaluations. Please play some games with this lines too and post the results together with evaluation which will quickly drop. Rebel with black please too. >Lines 6, 7, 9 and 10 are identical, and so are lines 5 and 13. > >Lines 5 and 6 are the most favorable to Rebel and the only ones that could be >suspected. Line 5 was played in a game Karklins-Leverett in the Chicago US Open >of 1989. This game ended in a draw. Line 6 was played in the game Hazai-Moehring >of Halle2 1981 and it also ended in a draw. No special computer killer lines >here, although no one would be very happy playing black's side. > >Nothing strange about the other lines. Black is slightly down when it leaves >book, but this is not uncommon playing black. > >What happened in the games Fritz 5 - Rebel 9 played by the SSDF has nothing to >do with cooked lines. Rebel was unable to save its games and therefore to >"learn", and it fell over and over on the same (not cooked) lines. That's a brilliant implementation of Fritz5 team. Prevent the opponent from learning. When we play a game together Enrique i first kick you very hard at the brain, then you're like you were when you were a baby, a baby which did not learn much (when surgeons operate your brain and remove some stuff from it, you lose memories and need to learn again a lot). Would such a surgical operation give us a fair match? Doesn't a program have the right to learn from previous games? This says something about SSDF preparing i guess! Certain try it by making a killerbook (my definition of a killerbook: a book which has been made in order to win against certain opponents and adjusted such that and then tested so that you KNOW for sure that you are gonna win), others by brain surgery. Look how cool things have evolved in Sweden. Note that SSDF themselve is not guilty. For some dollar reason it was needed to win there for certain programs, and they have been taken care for it by investing time so money into it. >Enrique Vincent
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