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Subject: Re: Root Move Ordering

Author: Miguel A. Ballicora

Date: 09:44:32 01/15/02

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On January 15, 2002 at 12:13:06, Daniel Clausen wrote:

>Hi
>
>On January 15, 2002 at 11:15:42, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>
>>For me, it was significantly smaller than doing the same
>>ordering I do in the rest of the tree.
>
>In other words, the root-like move-ordering scheme is
>better than the move-ordering scheme in the rest of the
>tree.

root-like move-ordering scheme is better for the root but not
necessarily for the tree. In the root, we have a stable nice position
where both player have been playing reasonable good moves.
In the tree, we have huge mess with ridiculous moves of all kinds.
In that context, captures always have good chance to be a refutation.
In the root not necessarily. Besides, this scheme can be only applied
to nodes where you examine all the moves. That is, ALL nodes (that you cannot
get the score above alpha) and PV nodes. It is really a mess to try to implement
it somewhere else. I thought about it and I am going to try it
eventually for the first few plies in the PV.
What I did try was the following: count the nodes that need a certain
move to be search in the tree. If I have to return alpha or below, that means
that I have no "bestmove" by score but all the moves have been searched
and I have the move that took "longer" to be searched. I stored this as
bestmove in the hashtable so it can be used later.

The tree was smaller in the first positin I tried, very exciting, but it was
bigger in all the positions I tried later!!! all of them!
What I did later was to store this move as "best" as long as it was searched
more than 4 plies, so to improve the accuracy. I got better but still
I did not get a smaller tree. I discarded the idea temporarily, it might
be good in other situations but I doubt it.
However, I feel that this kind of ordering in the PV could be benefitial just
a little bit. Still, it is a mess when the PV change. The cleanest way would
be to do a search function for the PV separated from search and keep a huge
table to store all this. Maybe I can try only at the next ply from the root.
I will try to implement something at one point and try it.

Regards,
Miguel


 Did you try to do root-like move-ordering in the rest
>of the tree? Maybe for the first N plies, since we have to
>store some statistic data for this.
>
>Sargon



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