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Subject: Re: [MODERATION] Djenghis in cct4

Author: Bas Hamstra

Date: 02:41:35 01/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 15, 2002 at 16:18:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 15, 2002 at 15:46:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2002 at 15:15:55, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2002 at 03:57:15, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 14, 2002 at 19:17:02, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello ,
>>>>>
>>>>>i see bookbuilder in cct4. that is an interface made by
>>>>>Bas Hamstra sold to J.E.F. Kaan (who can't program at all)
>>>>>and with crafty added sold as 'bookbuilder'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now i see Jan Kaan join CCT4 with bookbuilder under the name 'djenghis 0.05'.
>>>>>
>>>>>He is mentioned as 'author' from Djenghis.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not correct.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Vincent,
>>>>
>>>>You impossibly can provide the evidence of your accusation, I suggest you move
>>>>your suspect to the Tournament Director of CCT4, that is where it belongs.
>>>>
>>>>The moderators of CCC are not going to allow you to discredit the name of Mr.
>>>>Kaan based on wild speculations. So it's either provide the evidence or stop
>>>>now.
>>>>
>>>>Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>>Ed Schroder
>>>>CCC moderator
>>>
>>>With respect, I disagree with this.  The factual accuracy of what someone is
>>>saying shouldn't be an issue.  The moderators should not be a court of law that
>>>determined whether what someone says is true or false.
>>>
>>>"Put up or shut up" should be something the members say, not something the
>>>moderators say.  The club that the moderators wield is too heavy in this case.
>>>
>>>As a group, we need to be able to speak freely about issues that are important
>>>to us.  Sometimes, this might involve very contentious speech, which Vincent
>>>seems to specialize in.
>>>
>>>I think that the charter is designed to protect us from stalkers and people who
>>>can't stay within the bounds of civility.  It's not designed to prevent us from
>>>getting into arguments, disagreeing, or even accusing each other of things.
>>>
>>>I suggest that if Vincent makes a campaign out of this, it should go.  If
>>>someone is going to post the same thing every few days, they are obviously using
>>>the forum as a vehicle for personal attack -- that's what a campaign is.  I
>>>don't see that happening here.
>>>
>>>If someone wants to say something nasty, I think they should go for it.  I think
>>>that the charter protects us from people would would follow us around sniping at
>>>us, like the stuff that is happening in the other forum, but if someone is
>>>displeased with someone, that's a valid topic.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>I disagree
>>We got a moderator email that asked to delete all the thread
>>
>>I thought to do it but it was not a clear case that I was sure to do it so
>>I decided to discuss it with Ed and the decision was not to delete it.
>>but to give Vincent a warning.
>>
>>My opinion is that people should not accuse each other by "facts" that they
>>cannot prove and the question if the "facts" are right or wrong
>>is not important.
>
>
>I am with Bruce here.  Discussions can be frank at times.  But there is a
>difference between someone stating a concern and giving reasons for it, and
>for someone doing the same thing 20 times in a row.  IE the previous group
>of moderators tolerated quite a bit of this stuff from (say) chessbits or
>whatever.  But only to a point.  Once a did to, did not discussion goes on
>a while, it is time to end it.
>
>But discussing particularly sensitive issues here should be considered as
>acceptable so long as it doesn't resort to name-calling/insults.  Being
>concerned about a brand new program from an unknown author is certainly quite
>reasonable in light of past happenings related to my program.  I think it has
>already died down nicely of its own accord without needing any moderator
>intervention at all.
>
>If we only allow provable "facts" here, it will become quite useless, quite
>quickly, for quite a lot of folks...

Vincent simple has something personal against Jan Kaan (I know this for a fact)
and tries to discredit him. This is not the first time he tries to discredit him
in public, you know. I am surprised you have this opinion. When I was once
pissed at Vincent and wrote *one* poinsonous mail (without any direct insults)
it was instantly deleted by Uri Blass, because he labelled it a "personal
attack". And these smearing campaigns are allowed???

Come on, a little consistency...



Bas Hamstra.




















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