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Subject: Re: [MODERATION] Djenghis in cct4

Author: Bas Hamstra

Date: 16:13:23 01/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 16, 2002 at 14:17:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 16, 2002 at 05:41:35, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2002 at 16:18:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2002 at 15:46:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2002 at 15:15:55, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 15, 2002 at 03:57:15, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 14, 2002 at 19:17:02, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello ,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>i see bookbuilder in cct4. that is an interface made by
>>>>>>>Bas Hamstra sold to J.E.F. Kaan (who can't program at all)
>>>>>>>and with crafty added sold as 'bookbuilder'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now i see Jan Kaan join CCT4 with bookbuilder under the name 'djenghis 0.05'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He is mentioned as 'author' from Djenghis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is not correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Vincent,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You impossibly can provide the evidence of your accusation, I suggest you move
>>>>>>your suspect to the Tournament Director of CCT4, that is where it belongs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The moderators of CCC are not going to allow you to discredit the name of Mr.
>>>>>>Kaan based on wild speculations. So it's either provide the evidence or stop
>>>>>>now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Kindest regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed Schroder
>>>>>>CCC moderator
>>>>>
>>>>>With respect, I disagree with this.  The factual accuracy of what someone is
>>>>>saying shouldn't be an issue.  The moderators should not be a court of law that
>>>>>determined whether what someone says is true or false.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Put up or shut up" should be something the members say, not something the
>>>>>moderators say.  The club that the moderators wield is too heavy in this case.
>>>>>
>>>>>As a group, we need to be able to speak freely about issues that are important
>>>>>to us.  Sometimes, this might involve very contentious speech, which Vincent
>>>>>seems to specialize in.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that the charter is designed to protect us from stalkers and people who
>>>>>can't stay within the bounds of civility.  It's not designed to prevent us from
>>>>>getting into arguments, disagreeing, or even accusing each other of things.
>>>>>
>>>>>I suggest that if Vincent makes a campaign out of this, it should go.  If
>>>>>someone is going to post the same thing every few days, they are obviously using
>>>>>the forum as a vehicle for personal attack -- that's what a campaign is.  I
>>>>>don't see that happening here.
>>>>>
>>>>>If someone wants to say something nasty, I think they should go for it.  I think
>>>>>that the charter protects us from people would would follow us around sniping at
>>>>>us, like the stuff that is happening in the other forum, but if someone is
>>>>>displeased with someone, that's a valid topic.
>>>>>
>>>>>bruce
>>>>
>>>>I disagree
>>>>We got a moderator email that asked to delete all the thread
>>>>
>>>>I thought to do it but it was not a clear case that I was sure to do it so
>>>>I decided to discuss it with Ed and the decision was not to delete it.
>>>>but to give Vincent a warning.
>>>>
>>>>My opinion is that people should not accuse each other by "facts" that they
>>>>cannot prove and the question if the "facts" are right or wrong
>>>>is not important.
>>>
>>>
>>>I am with Bruce here.  Discussions can be frank at times.  But there is a
>>>difference between someone stating a concern and giving reasons for it, and
>>>for someone doing the same thing 20 times in a row.  IE the previous group
>>>of moderators tolerated quite a bit of this stuff from (say) chessbits or
>>>whatever.  But only to a point.  Once a did to, did not discussion goes on
>>>a while, it is time to end it.
>>>
>>>But discussing particularly sensitive issues here should be considered as
>>>acceptable so long as it doesn't resort to name-calling/insults.  Being
>>>concerned about a brand new program from an unknown author is certainly quite
>>>reasonable in light of past happenings related to my program.  I think it has
>>>already died down nicely of its own accord without needing any moderator
>>>intervention at all.
>>>
>>>If we only allow provable "facts" here, it will become quite useless, quite
>>>quickly, for quite a lot of folks...
>>
>>Vincent simple has something personal against Jan Kaan (I know this for a fact)
>>and tries to discredit him. This is not the first time he tries to discredit him
>>in public, you know. I am surprised you have this opinion. When I was once
>>pissed at Vincent and wrote *one* poinsonous mail (without any direct insults)
>>it was instantly deleted by Uri Blass, because he labelled it a "personal
>>attack". And these smearing campaigns are allowed???
>>
>>Come on, a little consistency...
>>
>>
>>
>>Bas Hamstra.
>
>
>I do not see this as a "smearing campaign".  I see it as a tournament
>participant wanting to be sure that we once again don't have yet another
>crafty clone playing in a public event.  It has happened in the past.  It
>will happen again.  Asking is not "smearing"...

Nothing wrong with asking. Had Vincent only done that the matter would have been
cleared up discretely with a few mails. But no: "he cannot write a program".
Some people can't see, or make insuline. Others can't write a program. Well,
THEN he must defend in public!


Best regards,
Bas.
































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