Author: K. Burcham
Date: 07:55:59 01/20/02
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"Crafty and Fritz are designed to play chess and not to search for mate so you cannot use them to search for mate". Uri not true They may miss forced mate because of null move pruning when the opponent is in zunzwang. it is known that many of the top programs cannot solve some mate in 2 problems when there are many pieces on the board and the opponent is in zunzwang because they prune lines with no threat when there are a lot of pieces on the board. It causes almost no problems in games but it can cause problems in solving studies and in a significant number of mate problems there is an idea of zunzwang inspite of the fact that there are a lot of pieces in the board. The best known engine to search for mates is chest and it seems that the number of people that are interested in mate problems is very small otherwise chessbase would do chest compatible with Fritz gui. Uri i do not question what you are saying. i understand your point. except the one statement about crafty and fritz is misleading. most programs today can find a lot of mates that GM's cannot. almost all programs including crafty and fritz are extremely capable of finding mates. it seems to me that crafty and fritz can find a mate as good as most top programs. you said URI, "you cannot use them to search for mate". i am only addressing this one statement, i understand the point you were making. i do not disagree with the other statements. if you say chest is the best at solving mate in x, then i am ok with this. i assume you have proved this with position testing against other programs. you should have said "based on my testing and experience, i have found that chest is much more capable of a mate search in a test position then crafty and fritz". here are several examples of crafty in mate search. please run this through your chest program. then we can compare as you have. [D] 3Q4/4q2p/1p1pNk2/3P2p1/6P1/7P/5P2/6K1 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 18.11: 2x1533mhz 1.Qh8+ Kg6 2.Qg8+ Kh6 3.f4 gxf4 4.g5+ Kh5 5.g6 h6 6.Qf7 Qxf7 7.gxf7 f3 8.f8Q +- (9.16) Depth: 10/15 00:00:03 3687kN 1.Qh8+ Kg6 2.Qg8+ Kh6 3.f4 gxf4 4.g5+ Kh5 5.g6 h6 6.Qf7 Qxf7 7.gxf7 f3 8.Kf2 +- (9.50) Depth: 11/15 00:00:04 5704kN 1.Qh8+ Kg6 2.Qg8+ Kh6 3.f4 gxf4 4.g5+ Kh5 5.g6 h6 6.Qf7 Qxf7 7.gxf7 f3 8.Kf2 +- (9.90) Depth: 12/18 00:00:07 9458kN, tb=1 1.Qh8+ Kg6 2.Qg8+ Kf6 3.Qxg5+ Kf7 4.Qg7+ Ke8 5.Qg8+ Kd7 6.Qa8 +- (#14) Depth: 12/18 00:00:19 25664kN, tb=1 1.Qh8+ Kg6 2.Qg8+ Kf6 3.Qxg5+ Kf7 4.Qg7+ Ke8 5.Qg8+ Kd7 6.Qa8 Qf6 7.g5 Qxg5+ 8.Nxg5 Ke7 9.Qb7+ Kd8 10.Ne6+ Ke8 11.Qg7 h6 12.Qf8+ Kd7 13.Qd8# +- (#13) Depth: 13/20 00:00:28 37820kN, tb=9 1.Qh8+ Kg6 2.Qg8+ Kf6 3.Qxg5+ Kf7 4.Qg7+ Ke8 5.Qg8+ Kd7 6.Qa8 Qf6 7.g5 Qxg5+ 8.Nxg5 Ke7 9.Qb7+ Kd8 10.Ne6+ Ke8 11.Qg7 h6 12.Qf8+ Kd7 13.Qd8# +- (#13) Depth: 14/28 00:00:56 76361kN, tb=54 [D] 4k3/3n4/7n/8/8/8/2BB4/3K4 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 18.11: 2x1533mhz 1.Bxh6 = (0.00) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 1.Bxh6 +- (#68) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 1.Bxh6 +- (#68) Depth: 2/4 00:00:00 [D] q5k1/5ppp/r5b1/4N3/1n1n2B1/8/PPP5/1K2R2Q b - - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 18.11: 2x1533mhz 1...Bxc2+ 2.Kc1 Nb3+ 3.axb3 Qd8 4.Qxh7+ Bxh7 5.Nd7 Qg5+ 6.Kd1 Ra1+ 7.Ke2 Qxg4+ 8.Kf1 Bd3+ 9.Kf2 Qf4+ 10.Kg2 Rxe1 -+ (-19.08) Depth: 8/18 00:00:02 3031kN 1...Bxc2+ 2.Kc1 Nb3+ 3.axb3 Qd8 4.Qxh7+ Bxh7 5.Nd7 Qg5+ 6.Kd1 Ra1+ 7.Ke2 Qxg4+ 8.Kf1 Bd3+ 9.Kf2 Qf4+ 10.Kg2 Rxe1 -+ (-19.48) Depth: 9/20 00:00:03 4333kN 1...Bxc2+ 2.Kc1 Nb3+ 3.axb3 Qd8 4.Qxh7+ Bxh7 5.Nd7 Qg5+ 6.Kd1 Rd6+ 7.Ke2 Qxg4+ 8.Ke3 Rd3+ 9.Kf2 Rf3+ 10.Ke2 Qg2+ 11.Kd1 Qc2# -+ (-#11) Depth: 9/20 00:00:09 12294kN 1...Bxc2+ 2.Kc1 Nb3+ 3.axb3 Qd8 4.Qxh7+ Bxh7 5.Nd7 Rd6 6.Nf6+ gxf6 7.Bf5 Qc7+ 8.Kb1 Bxf5+ 9.Ka1 Ra6# -+ (-#9) Depth: 10/23 00:00:30 41212kN [D] 8/p7/4p3/1k1pP2K/1bnP1P2/2B5/4N3/8 w - - 0 1 here crafty must avoid the bishop exchange----no problem Analysis by Crafty 18.11: 2x1533mhz 1.Bxb4 Kxb4 2.Kg6 a5 3.Kf6 a4 4.Kxe6 a3 5.Nc1 Kc3 6.Kxd5 Nb6+ 7.Kc5 Kb2 8.Na2 Kxa2 9.Kxb6 +- (3.04) Depth: 16/19 00:00:19 23100kN, tb=1920 1.Bxb4 Kxb4 2.Kg6 a5 3.Kf6 a4 4.Kxe6 a3 5.Nc1 Kc3 6.Kxd5 Nb6+ 7.Ke4 Kb2 8.Nd3+ Kc3 9.e6 a2 10.e7 Nd5 11.Kxd5 a1Q 12.e8Q Kxd3 +- (2.95) Depth: 17/27 00:00:28 33869kN, tb=3370 1.Bxb4 Kxb4 2.Kg6 a5 3.Kf6 a4 4.Kxe6 a3 5.Nc1 Kc3 6.Kxd5 Nb6+ 7.Kc6 Kb2 8.e6 Nc8 9.Na2 Kxa2 10.Kd7 Na7 +- (1.79) Depth: 18/27 00:01:06 84843kN, tb=7416 1.Kg5 Ba3 2.Kf6 Ne3 3.Kxe6 Kc4 4.Bd2 Nc2 5.f5 Kd3 6.Bc1 Bb4 7.Ng3 Kc4 8.Bb2 Nxd4+ 9.Bxd4 Kxd4 10.f6 a5 +- (1.92) Depth: 18/27 00:02:24 185988kN, tb=19179 1.Kg5 Be7+ 2.Kg6 Ne3 3.Kf7 Ba3 4.Kxe6 +- (2.25) Depth: 19/27 00:04:21 336582kN, tb=40315 1.Kg6 +- (2.32) Depth: 19/27 00:05:33 434679kN, tb=52539 1.Kg6 Ba3 2.Kf6 Ne3 3.Bd2 Nc2 4.Kxe6 +- (2.37) Depth: 19/27 00:09:53 801231kN, tb=78932 1.Kg6 Ba3 2.Kf6 Ne3 3.Bd2 Nc2 4.Kxe6 Kc4 5.f5 Kd3 6.Bc1 Bb4 7.Ng3 Kxd4 8.f6 a5 9.Bh6 a4 10.f7 a3 11.f8Q Bxf8 12.Bxf8 +- (2.33) Depth: 20/27 00:12:04 982455kN, tb=102011 1.Kg6 Ba3 2.Kf6 Ne3 3.Bd2 Nc2 4.Kxe6 Kc4 5.f5 Kd3 6.Bc1 Bb4 7.Ng3 Kc4 8.Kd7 Nxd4 9.e6 Nb3 10.Be3 d4 11.Bf4 +- (2.29) Depth: 21/27 00:18:31 1520982kN, tb=174622 1.Kg6 Ba3 2.Kf6 Ne3 3.Bd2 Nc2 4.Kxe6 Kc4 5.f5 Kd3 6.Bc1 Bb4 7.Ng3 Kc4 8.Kd7 Nxd4 9.e6 Nb3 10.Be3 d4 11.Bf4 +- (2.69) Depth: 22/30 00:37:32 3147628kN, tb=397564 [D] 5r2/r3Npkp/3pn1p1/qbnNp2P/1p2P3/5P2/PP1QB1P1/1KR4R w - - 0 1 Analysis by Crafty 18.11: 2x1533mhz 1.a3 Nb3 2.Qe3 bxa3 3.Qxb3 a2+ 4.Ka1 Bxe2 5.hxg6 -+ (-2.06) Depth: 8/20 00:00:07 7311kN 1.a3 Nb3 2.Qe3 bxa3 3.Qxb3 a2+ 4.Ka1 Bxe2 5.Qc3 Qxc3 6.Rxc3 -+ (-2.12) Depth: 9/20 00:00:11 11810kN 1.Qh6+ -+ (-1.66) Depth: 9/20 00:00:14 15962kN 1.Qh6+ Kxh6 2.hxg6+ Kg5 3.Rh5+ Kxh5 4.f4+ Bxe2 5.Nf6+ Kh6 6.Rh1+ Bh5 7.Rxh5+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Rxh7+ Kf6 10.Rxf7# +- (#10) Depth: 9/20 00:00:15 17522kN 1.Qh6+ Kxh6 2.hxg6+ Kg5 3.Rh5+ Kxh5 4.f4+ Bxe2 5.Nf6+ Kh6 6.Rh1+ Bh5 7.Rxh5+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Rxh7+ Kf6 10.Rxf7# +- (#10) Depth: 10/20 00:00:15 18456kN 1.Qh6+ Kxh6 2.hxg6+ Kg5 3.Rh5+ Kxh5 4.f4+ Bxe2 5.Nf6+ Kh6 6.Rh1+ Bh5 7.Rxh5+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Rxh7+ Kf6 10.Rxf7# +- (#10) Depth: 11/20 00:00:17 21261kN Analysis by Crafty 18.11: 1000mhz 1.a3 Nb3 2.Qe3 bxa3 3.Qxb3 a2+ 4.Ka1 Bxe2 5.hxg6 -+ (-2.06) Depth: 8/28 00:00:15 7322kN 1.a3 Nb3 2.Qe3 bxa3 3.Qxb3 a2+ 4.Ka1 Bxe2 5.Qc3 Qxc3 6.Rxc3 -+ (-2.12) Depth: 9/28 00:00:24 11845kN 1.Qh6+ -+ (-1.66) Depth: 9/28 00:00:31 15633kN 1.Qh6+ Kxh6 2.hxg6+ Kg5 3.Rh5+ Kxh5 4.f4+ Bxe2 5.Nf6+ Kh6 6.Rh1+ Bh5 7.Rxh5+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Rxh7+ Kf6 10.Rxf7# +- (#10) Depth: 9/28 00:00:33 16947kN 1.Qh6+ Kxh6 2.hxg6+ Kg5 3.Rh5+ Kxh5 4.f4+ Bxe2 5.Nf6+ Kh6 6.Rh1+ Bh5 7.Rxh5+ Kg7 8.Ne8+ Rxe8 9.Rxh7+ Kf6 10.Rxf7# +- (#10) Depth: 10/30 00:00:35 17917kN it seems the original question was: the person did not know how to set up a position for a mate search in fritz7A. Steve: first set the amount of hash you want. then click on File, New, Position setup. now clear board, and now drag and drop. when you have the position setup choose side to move, and click ok. now choose analysis in your tool bar. kburcham
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