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Subject: Re: Material Values

Author: David Rasmussen

Date: 01:10:06 01/21/02

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On January 20, 2002 at 18:24:33, Uri Blass wrote:

>On January 20, 2002 at 16:39:23, David Rasmussen wrote:
>
>>On January 20, 2002 at 14:36:44, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>but it is still not clear because the other evaluation stuff is important.
>>>
>>
>>Of course the other evaluation stuff is important. I am not suggesting to cancel
>>all evaluation other than material. I am just saying, instead of having a pawn
>>be 1 and a knight be 3, and then somewhere in evaluation check if you have
>>exchanged a knight for three pawns, then you penalize by, say, 0.5, why not just
>>let the knight have a value of 3.5? I know there are more than one requirement,
>>which is why it isn't trvial. But there still might be a solution. It is
>>basically a linear programming problem. I don't say that material values should
>>cover all sorts of evaluation cases, but material _do_ have values right? And
>>who says that 1,3,3,5,9 is the Unchangeable Truth?
>
>I did not say that 1 3 3 5 9 is the unchangable truth.
>
>I said that the numbers are meaningless without more knowledge about the
>evaluation.
>
>1 3 3 5 9 in a chess program may be eqvivalent to 0.8 3 3 5 9 if you change the
>piece square tables.
>
>
>Uri

This has nothing to do with piece square tables. I am _only_ taking about
material special cases. Three pawns for a bishop. Two minor pieces for a rook
and a pawn. Two rooks for a queen. Etc. Everything else will still have to be in
the evaluation. The reason for having material values in the first place is
_primarily_ to solve such _material_ special cases. Is it good to win a queen
for a pawn? Yes, 1,3,3,5,9 says it is. Is it good to win two minor pieces for a
rook and a pawn? 1,3,3,5,9 says it doesn't matter. 1,3.5,3.5,5.5,10 says it's a
good idea. If the minor pieces had little mobility, and the rook was active it
might be a bad idea. Other evaluation terms will measure that. But you will have
to have these terms _anyway_. Why have 1,3,3,5,9 and then have code that checks
if you have traded two minor pieces for rook and pawn and then give a penalty?

/David



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