Author: Bas Hamstra
Date: 03:40:24 01/22/02
Go up one level in this thread
On January 22, 2002 at 00:08:18, Uri Blass wrote: >On January 21, 2002 at 15:10:49, Bas Hamstra wrote: > >>On January 21, 2002 at 04:55:02, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On January 21, 2002 at 04:07:11, Tony Werten wrote: >>> >>>>On January 21, 2002 at 03:51:42, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 02:32:18, Tony Werten wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 14:40:08, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 12:25:29, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 09:56:43, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 09:28:51, Bas Hamstra wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>A dutch saying. I "converted" a colleague that has become a friend at work, I'm >>>>>>>>>>not entirely sure that this is a noble thing. He is pretty smart and has a broad >>>>>>>>>>interest. So we talked a few times about the insides of a chess program. He >>>>>>>>>>became interested and I explained alphabeta. The next day he had alphabeta >>>>>>>>>>completely figured out in a spreadsheet, and understood it. Two weeks later, he >>>>>>>>>>has a working winboard engine... Boy HE goes fast. In May (if there is a Leiden >>>>>>>>>>tournament again) he will show up with "Shark". His main target is to crush Tao >>>>>>>>>>:-) At first I smiled, and said that is was quite possible in a couple of years. >>>>>>>>>>But lately I am beginning to get the feeling that it might be sooner :-) Have >>>>>>>>>>you ever seen someone pick it up SO quickly...? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>IIRC Bruce started on Ferret in 1994 and had (from his own comments) an engine >>>>>>>>>that could have been commerical by the end of 1995. I think that's certainly >>>>>>>>>a remarkable archievement, especially considering that seven years ago there >>>>>>>>>was much less information and examples available. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Bruce works for Microsoft. He doesn't count. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not understand what is the importance of the question where someone works >>>>>>>for the discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>>Certain workenvironments give acces to a lot of experienced programmers. >>>>>>Although it's not a sure it helps, it doesn't hurt either. >>>>>> >>>>>>Tony >>>>> >>>>>I believe that there are 2 important things to be good in chess programming. >>>>> >>>>>1)having talent for programming that means the ability to do fast a well defined >>>>>algorithm with no stupid bugs that you need to work hours to discover. >>>>> >>>>>2)having talent for math that can help you to be better in finding >>>>>a better algorithm and to be better in guessing if an idea is wrong or right >>>>>based on previous experience. >>>>> >>>>>The number of people who have special talent for both 1 and 2 is small but I >>>>>believe that someone with special talent for 1 and 2 can do a top program in >>>>>every game in a few weeks. >>>> >>>>I disagree. You forgot 3) Having new ideas. Not everything is published, so you >>>>need a feel of what is happening in your program and then find ways to do that >>>>best. 1 and 2 will only give you a decent program. >>>> >>>>Tony >>> >>>I think that having new ideas is included in 2 >>>people who have a special talent for math need to have new ideas in order to >>>discover new things. >> >>I think (and those are the most seldom) people with a special talent for writing >>top programs very fast can do it. But seriously NONE can start from zero an >>write a top program in a few weeks, you must be kidding... As far as I know SMK >>has the absolute world record, doing it within a couple of months (almost a year >>or so I believe). If I am not mistaken he started from zero. > > >I do not think that SMK is the best(I assume that you mean to the programmer of >shredder). We are not talking about who's best. Are you implying Shredder is not a top-program? >I know that shredder is not good in tactics relative to Fritz and I expect a >good programmer first to do the program good in tactics(It seems to me easier >than investigating how to get better positional evaluation). You may believe and expect all you want, I have no problem with that. But Shredder is a top program, written within a year, where it took all programmers I know *way* longer to reach top-level. Morsch, Lang, Schroeder, Theron, Ban. I think that believing this is possible within 2 weeks shows a lack of insight in the matter. But it's no big deal, I don't mind. Best regards, Bas. >I do not say that SMK is a bad programmer and he is probably better than more >than 99% of the programmers but it is not enough. >You cannot prove that None can start from zero and write a top program in few >weeks when most of the programmers simply did not try. >I believe that the few programmers who can do it can earn more monry from other >things and not from chess programming. > >Uri
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