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Subject: Re: What is good comes fast

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:53:26 01/22/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 22, 2002 at 06:40:24, Bas Hamstra wrote:

>On January 22, 2002 at 00:08:18, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 21, 2002 at 15:10:49, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>On January 21, 2002 at 04:55:02, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 04:07:11, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 03:51:42, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 02:32:18, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 14:40:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 12:25:29, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 09:56:43, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 09:28:51, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>A dutch saying. I "converted" a colleague that has become a friend at work, I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>not entirely sure that this is a noble thing. He is pretty smart and has a broad
>>>>>>>>>>>interest. So we talked a few times about the insides of a chess program. He
>>>>>>>>>>>became interested and I explained alphabeta. The next day he had alphabeta
>>>>>>>>>>>completely figured out in a spreadsheet, and understood it. Two weeks later, he
>>>>>>>>>>>has a working winboard engine... Boy HE goes fast. In May (if there is a Leiden
>>>>>>>>>>>tournament again) he will show up with "Shark". His main target is to crush Tao
>>>>>>>>>>>:-) At first I smiled, and said that is was quite possible in a couple of years.
>>>>>>>>>>>But lately I am beginning to get the feeling that it might be sooner :-) Have
>>>>>>>>>>>you ever seen someone pick it up SO quickly...?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>IIRC Bruce started on Ferret in 1994 and had (from his own comments) an engine
>>>>>>>>>>that could have been commerical by the end of 1995. I think that's certainly
>>>>>>>>>>a remarkable archievement, especially considering that seven years ago there
>>>>>>>>>>was much less information and examples available.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bruce works for Microsoft. He doesn't count.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I do not understand what is the importance of the question where someone works
>>>>>>>>for the discussion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Certain workenvironments give acces to a lot of experienced programmers.
>>>>>>>Although it's not a sure it helps, it doesn't hurt either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe that there are 2 important things to be good in chess programming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1)having talent for programming that means the ability to do fast a well defined
>>>>>>algorithm with no stupid bugs that you need to work hours to discover.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2)having talent for math that can help you to be better in finding
>>>>>>a better algorithm and to be better in guessing if an idea is wrong or right
>>>>>>based on previous experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The number of people who have special talent for both 1 and 2 is small but I
>>>>>>believe that someone with special talent for 1 and 2 can do a top program in
>>>>>>every game in a few weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>>I disagree. You forgot 3) Having new ideas. Not everything is published, so you
>>>>>need a feel of what is happening in your program and then find ways to do that
>>>>>best. 1 and 2 will only give you a decent program.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tony
>>>>
>>>>I think that having new ideas is included in 2
>>>>people who have a special talent for math need to have new ideas in order to
>>>>discover new things.
>>>
>>>I think (and those are the most seldom) people with a special talent for writing
>>>top programs very fast can do it. But seriously NONE can start from zero an
>>>write a top program in a few weeks, you must be kidding... As far as I know SMK
>>>has the absolute world record, doing it within a couple of months (almost a year
>>>or so I believe). If I am not mistaken he started from zero.
>>
>>
>>I do not think that SMK is the best(I assume that you mean to the programmer of
>>shredder).
>
>We are not talking about who's best. Are you implying Shredder is not a
>top-program?
>
>>I know that shredder is not good in tactics relative to Fritz and I expect a
>>good programmer first to do the program good in tactics(It seems to me easier
>>than investigating how to get better positional evaluation).
>
>You may believe and expect all you want, I have no problem with that. But
>Shredder is a top program, written within a year, where it took all programmers
>I know *way* longer to reach top-level. Morsch, Lang, Schroeder, Theron, Ban.
>
>I think that believing this is possible within 2 weeks shows a lack of insight
>in the matter. But it's no big deal, I don't mind.
>
>
>Best regards,
>Bas.

Saying that something is possible does not mean that a lot of people can do it.

I believe that there is a big difference in the ability of humans.
A genius can do in one week things that take a year for other intelligent
people.

Uri



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