Author: Uri Blass
Date: 03:53:26 01/22/02
Go up one level in this thread
On January 22, 2002 at 06:40:24, Bas Hamstra wrote: >On January 22, 2002 at 00:08:18, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 21, 2002 at 15:10:49, Bas Hamstra wrote: >> >>>On January 21, 2002 at 04:55:02, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On January 21, 2002 at 04:07:11, Tony Werten wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 03:51:42, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 02:32:18, Tony Werten wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 14:40:08, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 12:25:29, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 09:56:43, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On January 20, 2002 at 09:28:51, Bas Hamstra wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>A dutch saying. I "converted" a colleague that has become a friend at work, I'm >>>>>>>>>>>not entirely sure that this is a noble thing. He is pretty smart and has a broad >>>>>>>>>>>interest. So we talked a few times about the insides of a chess program. He >>>>>>>>>>>became interested and I explained alphabeta. The next day he had alphabeta >>>>>>>>>>>completely figured out in a spreadsheet, and understood it. Two weeks later, he >>>>>>>>>>>has a working winboard engine... Boy HE goes fast. In May (if there is a Leiden >>>>>>>>>>>tournament again) he will show up with "Shark". His main target is to crush Tao >>>>>>>>>>>:-) At first I smiled, and said that is was quite possible in a couple of years. >>>>>>>>>>>But lately I am beginning to get the feeling that it might be sooner :-) Have >>>>>>>>>>>you ever seen someone pick it up SO quickly...? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>IIRC Bruce started on Ferret in 1994 and had (from his own comments) an engine >>>>>>>>>>that could have been commerical by the end of 1995. I think that's certainly >>>>>>>>>>a remarkable archievement, especially considering that seven years ago there >>>>>>>>>>was much less information and examples available. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Bruce works for Microsoft. He doesn't count. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I do not understand what is the importance of the question where someone works >>>>>>>>for the discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Certain workenvironments give acces to a lot of experienced programmers. >>>>>>>Although it's not a sure it helps, it doesn't hurt either. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Tony >>>>>> >>>>>>I believe that there are 2 important things to be good in chess programming. >>>>>> >>>>>>1)having talent for programming that means the ability to do fast a well defined >>>>>>algorithm with no stupid bugs that you need to work hours to discover. >>>>>> >>>>>>2)having talent for math that can help you to be better in finding >>>>>>a better algorithm and to be better in guessing if an idea is wrong or right >>>>>>based on previous experience. >>>>>> >>>>>>The number of people who have special talent for both 1 and 2 is small but I >>>>>>believe that someone with special talent for 1 and 2 can do a top program in >>>>>>every game in a few weeks. >>>>> >>>>>I disagree. You forgot 3) Having new ideas. Not everything is published, so you >>>>>need a feel of what is happening in your program and then find ways to do that >>>>>best. 1 and 2 will only give you a decent program. >>>>> >>>>>Tony >>>> >>>>I think that having new ideas is included in 2 >>>>people who have a special talent for math need to have new ideas in order to >>>>discover new things. >>> >>>I think (and those are the most seldom) people with a special talent for writing >>>top programs very fast can do it. But seriously NONE can start from zero an >>>write a top program in a few weeks, you must be kidding... As far as I know SMK >>>has the absolute world record, doing it within a couple of months (almost a year >>>or so I believe). If I am not mistaken he started from zero. >> >> >>I do not think that SMK is the best(I assume that you mean to the programmer of >>shredder). > >We are not talking about who's best. Are you implying Shredder is not a >top-program? > >>I know that shredder is not good in tactics relative to Fritz and I expect a >>good programmer first to do the program good in tactics(It seems to me easier >>than investigating how to get better positional evaluation). > >You may believe and expect all you want, I have no problem with that. But >Shredder is a top program, written within a year, where it took all programmers >I know *way* longer to reach top-level. Morsch, Lang, Schroeder, Theron, Ban. > >I think that believing this is possible within 2 weeks shows a lack of insight >in the matter. But it's no big deal, I don't mind. > > >Best regards, >Bas. Saying that something is possible does not mean that a lot of people can do it. I believe that there is a big difference in the ability of humans. A genius can do in one week things that take a year for other intelligent people. Uri
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