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Subject: Re: Search Instabilities

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:44:22 01/22/02

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On January 22, 2002 at 03:18:42, José Carlos wrote:

>On January 22, 2002 at 01:53:53, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 22, 2002 at 00:44:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 21, 2002 at 14:27:34, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 21, 2002 at 10:41:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You have to do two things:
>>>>>
>>>>>1.  If you get a fail high at the root on a zero-width window (any move after
>>>>>the first move should be searched with a zero-width window) you can't trust it
>>>>>unless you re-search it with a bigger beta bound and make _sure_ that it doesn't
>>>>>then fail low.  Such fail-high (zero window) fail-low (non-zero window) is an
>>>>>artifact of null-move and if you play such a fail high move even if it fails low
>>>>>on the re-search, you will die...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If you mean, do I count value >= alpha+1 from zero-window search as a fail high,
>>>>then no. In that case, I research with the original alpha;beta window. Isn't
>>>>that ok?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>What if you run out of time?  You failed high on the null-window search.
>>>You started a new search with a wider window and time expired.  Do you play
>>>the fail-high move or stick with the previous best move?  I stick with the
>>>last verified move.
>>>
>>>Unless I fail high a second time which means the original aspiration window
>>>was too small and I am now going to +infinity.  I trust the second fail high
>>>but not the first.
>>
>>Does it mean that even if the evaluation before the fail high was mate against
>>youself you are not going to play the fail high move if you have not time to
>>verify it?
>>
>>In this case it is a mistake.
>>It seems better to have a rule based on the previous evaluation when to play the
>>fail high move that you cannot trust and when not to play it and not to play it
>>only when the evaluation is bigger than some number.
>
>  If the previous pv score is a mate against you and the move you're searching
>isn't, it's gonna fail high very quickly in the research.
>  But I find your idea senseful. For example, if your pv fails low down to
>-mate in n and you run out of time so much that you can't allocate more time,
>you could even pick a random move among the others, and hope it's not -mate...
>
>  José C.


I think that is bad.  Remember, you searched for a good while and until the
last iteration, your program thought the current best move was really the
best one.  That means that busting this move is very difficult.  Against a
human it is very likely that he won't even see how to bust it.  If you go
belly-up and play a random move, you will greatly increase your chances of
really losing this game.

(this was discussed by Hans Berliner years ago.  It was his idea to behave as
I explained).




>
>>I have no idea about the exact number and looking at positions when Crafty did
>>not play a move that fail high may help to get a better idea.
>>
>>Uri



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