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Subject: Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:07:59 01/25/02

On January 25, 2002 at 16:52:38, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On January 25, 2002 at 16:46:38, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote:
>
>>I would like to know the opinion of the readers of this forum on the following
>>questions.
>>1.What would be the Elo rating of the perfect chessplayer?
>
>Depends on whether or not he's playing against another perfect player.  If he
>wins 100% of his games, his ELO is infinite.  If he plays another perfect player
>and draws 100%, then his ELO is anywhere from 1 to any arbitrary huge number
>(same as his opponent) depending on how you seeded the calculation.

It is possible to ask the question in another way
suppose that a computer can solve chess by search and has an opening book of
1000000 correct moves

Suppose we do a tournament when the same program play at different depthes and
decide that the depth that the program draws with kasparov gets rating of 2800.

What is the rating of the perfect player?

Note that I expect to see the perfect player gets something between 50% and 100%
against depth of 30 plies because the question if depth 30 plies play perfect
chess is dependent in the opening.

>
>>2.Are there natural limits to the strenght that can be achieved in chess
>>for a computerchess player? (Not the present centuary but in any future;that
>>is what I mean by natural limits).
>
>If you calculate to the end of the game, you cannot improve on that.  I don't
>think we'll see that happen real soon.
>
>>3.If the rating of perfect player is say x ;what would be the rating of
>>the stongest computer player ever(that is the best chessprogram that can be
>>ever contructed useing computer technology) .It would be x-?.Or would it be x?
>
>It would be zero, unless it was perfect also.  The perfect player would win
>every game and get all the ELO points.  The imperfect player would lose all the
>games and get an ELO of zero.

No

It is possible that the imperfect player is going to draw part of the games.

Saying that someone is not perfect does not mean that it is the case in every
game.

Even the player who play random moves is going to get more than 0% against the
perfect player if you play enough games.

Uri

Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess ALI MIRAFZALI 14:28:19 01/25/02
Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 14:19:17 01/25/02
- Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 14:25:56 01/25/02
  - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Jesper Antonsson 16:36:03 01/26/02
    - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Angrim 18:10:20 01/28/02
  - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 14:31:56 01/25/02
    - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 14:49:13 01/25/02
      - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 14:53:39 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Roy Eassa 14:56:07 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Aaron Tay 09:50:03 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess J. Wesley Cleveland 17:42:29 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 11:43:36 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess karen Dall Lynn 15:30:14 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 15:42:03 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 15:22:15 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Janosch Zwerensky 09:23:00 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 15:31:10 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 16:03:21 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Janosch Zwerensky 09:29:50 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 09:52:34 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Peter Hegger 12:13:28 01/27/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 14:07:26 01/27/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 16:15:26 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 16:33:24 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 16:47:44 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Roy Eassa 14:48:00 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Sune Fischer 15:11:45 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 15:43:01 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Sune Fischer 16:30:10 01/26/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Albert Silver 17:41:28 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 10:43:06 01/26/02
    - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Uri Blass 14:39:19 01/25/02
      - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Dann Corbit 14:46:39 01/25/02
        
        Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess Uri Blass 21:29:02 01/25/02
  - Re: Some Philosophical questions on the limits of Computer chess ALI MIRAFZALI 14:31:21 01/25/02

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