Author: Uri Blass
Date: 09:14:26 01/28/02
Go up one level in this thread
On January 28, 2002 at 11:52:09, Roy Eassa wrote: >On January 28, 2002 at 11:41:25, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 28, 2002 at 11:34:43, Roy Eassa wrote: >> >>>On January 28, 2002 at 11:27:37, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>I suspect that if you give them some hours they will have no choice but to see >>>>the right move >>>> >>> >>> >>>It's one thing to prefer Rc4. It's quite another to see the entire line up to >>>and including the draw, in all branches, as the original poster asked about. I >>>think that, for this position, "some hours" may end up being "some millions of >>>hours." >> >>The original poster said that he guess that if the program find the first move >>the rest should follow ... > > >True, but he admitted to be guessing on that point. The topic of his post was >about finding the stalemate idea (it's in the title). In order to do that, I >think the program must see a draw (not just see a big, albeit smaller, loss than >with axb3). > >Just my understanding. Yours may certainly differ. I think that the main target of problems is to find the right move Yace found the right move in less than an hour New position 8/p7/P2p1p2/3n4/R2P3K/1p2P1N1/P1p2P1k/Rn6 w - - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 1.Rxb1 cxb1Q 2.axb3 Qxb3 -+ (-3.70) Depth: 1 00:00:04 1.axb3 c1Q µ (-0.89) Depth: 1 00:00:04 1.Rc4 +- (6.12) Depth: 1 00:00:04 1.Rc4 b2 2.e4 +- (5.31) Depth: 2 00:00:04 1.Rc4 b2 2.Nf1+ Kg2 +- (5.07) Depth: 2 00:00:04 1.Rc4 b2 2.Nf1+ Kg2 +- (5.07) Depth: 3 00:00:04 1.Rc4 b2 2.Rxc2 bxa1Q 3.f3+ Nd2 4.Rxd2+ Kg1 -+ (-2.14) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.Rc4 b2 2.Rc5 bxa1Q 3.Rxd5 -+ (-4.37) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.Rc4 b2 2.Rxb1 cxb1Q 3.a3 -+ (-4.49) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.axb3 c1Q -+ (-4.47) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.axb3 c1Q 2.Nf5 Qb2 3.Nxd6 Qxb3 ³ (-0.70) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.Nf1+ Kg2 2.Nd2 c1N ³ (-0.69) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.Nf1+ Kg2 2.Nd2 c1Q 3.Nxb1 Kxf2 4.axb3 Kxe3 = (0.08) Depth: 4 00:00:04 1.Nf1+ Kg2 2.Nd2 c1Q 3.Nxb3 ³ (-0.32) Depth: 5 00:00:04 8kN 1.Nf1+ Kg2 2.Nd2 c1Q 3.Kg4 µ (-1.32) Depth: 5 00:00:04 8kN 1.Nf1+ Kg2 2.axb3 c1Q 3.Ra5 Ne7 4.Ng3 -+ (-1.60) Depth: 5 00:00:04 8kN 1.axb3 Nxe3 2.fxe3 Kg2 µ (-1.35) Depth: 5 00:00:04 8kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.Ra5 Qc3 3.Ne4 Qxb3 ³ (-0.64) Depth: 5 00:00:04 8kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R1a2 Qc7 3.f3+ Kg1 4.e4 Qh7+ 5.Kg4 µ (-0.79) Depth: 6 00:00:04 74kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.Ra5 Qc8 3.Kh5 Qh3+ 4.Kg6 Qg4+ 5.Kh7 Qh4+ 6.Kg8 Nbc3 µ (-0.97) Depth: 7 00:00:04 94kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R1a2 Kg2 3.Rc4 Nbc3 4.Rc6 Nxa2 5.Rxc1 µ (-1.00) Depth: 8 00:00:05 477kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R1a2 Kg2 3.Rc4 Nbc3 4.Nf1 Qxf1 5.Rb2 µ (-1.40) Depth: 9 00:00:07 890kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R1a2 Kg2 µ (-1.40) Depth: 9 00:00:07 890kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Qd1+ 4.Kh6 Ndc3 5.Ra3 Kxf2 6.Nf5 Nxa3 7.Rxd1 -+ (-1.77) Depth: 10 00:00:13 3101kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Nb4 4.Re2 Nc2 5.Ra2 Nxd4 6.Reb2 Qc5+ 7.Kh6 -+ (-1.82) Depth: 11 00:00:25 7630kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ne7 4.Kh6 Qc8 5.f3+ Kxg3 6.Kh7 Kxf3 7.Kh6 -+ (-2.22) Depth: 12 00:01:17 26895kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ne7 4.Kh6 Qc8 5.Kg7 Nc3 6.e4 Nxa2 7.Rxa2 -+ (-2.48) Depth: 12 00:01:27 30175kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ndc3 4.Ra5 Kxf2 5.Nf5 Qg1 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 7.Nxd6 Kxe3 8.Ne8 -+ (-2.88) Depth: 13 00:03:32 76767kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ndc3 4.Ra5 Kxf2 5.Nf5 Qg1 6.Nh6 Ke2 7.Rf5 Qh2+ 8.Kg6 Kxe3 -+ (-2.93) Depth: 13 00:04:33 98685kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ne7 4.Kh6 Qc8 5.Kg7 Qg8+ 6.Kxf6 Nd5+ 7.Kf5 Kh3 8.Ke4 Nbc3+ 9.Kd3 Nxa2 10.e4 Ndb4+ 11.Kd2 -+ (-3.33) Depth: 14 00:07:27 164309kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ne7 4.Nf5 Nxf5 5.Kg6 Ne7+ 6.Kxf6 Nd5+ 7.Ke6 Nb4 8.Ra4 Nc2 9.Rc4 Kxf2 -+ (-3.68) Depth: 14 00:13:32 299421kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Ne7 4.Nf5 Nxf5 5.Kg6 Ne7+ 6.Kxf6 Nd5+ 7.Ke6 Ndc3 8.f4+ Nxa2 9.Kxd6 Kf2 10.Kd7 -+ (-4.08) Depth: 15 00:21:18 468464kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.R4a2 Kg2 3.Kh5 Qc8 4.Rxb1 Qh8+ 5.Kg6 Qg8+ 6.Kh6 Ne7 7.f3+ Kxf3 8.Rf1+ Kg4 9.Rf4+ Kxg3 10.Rh2 Kxh2 11.e4 -+ (-5.08) Depth: 15 00:29:50 654801kN 1.axb3 c1Q 2.Rc4 Qb2 3.Rca4 Ndc3 4.d5 Nxa4 5.Rxa4 Qxf2 6.Rg4 Nd2 7.Kh5 Qxe3 8.Nf5 Qe8+ 9.Rg6 Qe5 -+ (-5.37) Depth: 15 00:49:09 1065653kN 1.Rc4 b2 2.Rxc2 bxa1Q 3.f3+ Kg1 4.Kh3 Nxe3 5.Rh2 Nc2 -+ (-5.36) Depth: 15 00:51:22 1116454kN 1.Rc4 b2 2.Rxc2 bxa1Q 3.f3+ Kg1 4.Kh3 Nxe3 5.Rh2 f5 6.f4 d5 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Ng3+ Ke1 9.Re2+ Kd1 10.Rxe3 Qxd4 11.Re5 Nc3 12.Rxf5 Qc4 -+ (-4.87) Depth: 15 00:52:20 1140430kN 1.Rc4 b2 2.Rxc2 bxa1Q 3.f3+ Kg1 4.Kh3 Nxe3 5.Rh2 f5 6.f4 d5 7.a3 Nd2 8.Ne2+ Kf1 9.Rh1+ Kf2 10.Rxa1 Kf3 -+ (-4.47) Depth: 16 01:00:41 1332263kN (Blass, Tel-aviv 28.01.2002) Yace failed high at depth 16 and I stopped it before finishing the fail high problem. I also did some previous analysis when yace did not learn from it and I expect based on the previous analysis to see a big fail high at depth 16 with score of only 1.xx for black. Here is the previous analysis pay attention that -4.87 was seen only at depth 10 and -4.47 was the first score that was seen at depth 11 so I guess that depth 10 is eqvivalent to 15 when depth 11 is eqvivalent to 16. I also suspect that seeing the stakemate idea is not enough to see the draw. New position [D]8/p7/P2p1p2/8/3P4/4nPNK/P6R/qn4k1 b - - 0 1 Analysis by Yace 0.99.56: 5...Qxa2 6.Rxa2 +- (1.93) Depth: 1 00:00:04 5...Qxd4 -+ (-8.53) Depth: 1 00:00:04 5...Qxd4 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Nxd4 ± (1.24) Depth: 2 00:00:04 5...Qxd4 6.Ne2+ Kf1 +- (1.75) Depth: 2 00:00:04 5...f5 6.Rh1+ Kf2 7.Rxb1 -+ (-3.34) Depth: 2 00:00:04 5...f5 6.d5 -+ (-7.37) Depth: 2 00:00:04 5...d5 6.Ne4 -+ (-7.43) Depth: 2 00:00:04 5...d5 6.Rh1+ Kf2 -+ (-7.55) Depth: 2 00:00:04 5...d5 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Ng3+ Ke1 8.Re2+ Kd1 9.Rxe3 -+ (-5.52) Depth: 3 00:00:04 5...d5 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Ng3+ Ke1 8.Re2+ Kd1 -+ (-5.07) Depth: 3 00:00:04 5...d5 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Ng3+ Ke1 8.Re2+ Kd1 9.Rxe3 -+ (-5.07) Depth: 4 00:00:04 5...d5 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Ng3+ Ke1 8.Re2+ Kd1 9.Rxe3 Qxd4 -+ (-5.07) Depth: 5 00:00:04 2kN 5...d5 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Ng3+ Ke1 8.Re2+ Kd1 9.Rxe3 Qxd4 10.Re2 -+ (-5.01) Depth: 6 00:00:04 4kN 5...d5 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Ng3+ Ke1 8.Re2+ Kd1 9.Rxe3 Qxd4 10.Re7 Qd3 11.Rxa7 Qxf3 -+ (-5.25) Depth: 7 00:00:04 27kN 5...d5 6.f4 f5 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Ng3+ Ke1 9.Re2+ Kd1 10.Rxe3 Qxd4 11.Nxf5 -+ (-5.10) Depth: 8 00:00:04 108kN 5...d5 6.f4 f5 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Ng3+ Ke1 9.Re2+ Kd1 10.Rxe3 Qxa2 -+ (-4.70) Depth: 9 00:00:04 124kN 5...d5 6.f4 f5 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Ng3+ Ke1 9.Re2+ Kd1 10.Rxe3 Qxa2 11.Nxf5 Qxa6 12.Kh4 Qg6 -+ (-4.49) Depth: 9 00:00:04 164kN 5...d5 6.f4 f5 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Ng3+ Ke1 9.Re2+ Kd1 10.Rxe3 Qxd4 11.Re5 Nc3 12.Rxf5 Qc4 13.Kh4 -+ (-4.87) Depth: 10 00:00:05 362kN 5...d5 6.f4 f5 7.a3 Nxa3 8.Ne2+ Kf1 9.Rh1+ Kxe2 10.Rxa1 Nf1 -+ (-4.47) Depth: 11 00:00:05 512kN 5...d5 -+ (-3.47) Depth: 11 00:00:05 512kN 5...d5 6.f4 Qc3 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Nxc3 Nxc3 9.Rb2 Ne2 10.Rb7 Nxf4+ 11.Kg3 Ne6 12.Kf3 Nc4 13.Rxa7 -+ (-1.53) Depth: 11 00:00:06 722kN 5...d5 6.f4 Qc3 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Nxc3 Nxc3 9.Kg3 Nf5+ 10.Kg4 Nxd4 11.Rh7 Ndb5 12.Kf5 Ne4 13.Re7 -+ (-1.47) Depth: 12 00:00:07 1303kN 5...d5 6.f4 Qc3 7.Ne2+ Kf1 8.Nxc3 Nxc3 9.Kg3 Nf5+ 10.Kg4 Nxd4 11.Rh7 Ndb5 12.a4 Nxa4 13.Rh6 Nd4 µ (-1.36) Depth: 13 00:00:09 2454kN 5...Qc3 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Nxc3 Nxc3 8.Rb2 Ne2 9.Rb7 Kf2 10.Kh4 Nxd4 11.Rb4 Kxf3 12.a3 Nef5+ 13.Kh5 µ (-1.37) Depth: 13 00:00:13 4653kN 5...Qc3 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Nxc3 Nxc3 8.Rb2 Ne2 9.Rb7 Kf2 10.Kh2 Kxf3 11.Rf7 f5 12.Rxa7 Ng4+ 13.Kh3 Nf2+ 14.Kh4 Nxd4 -+ (-1.73) Depth: 13 00:00:18 7292kN 5...Qc3 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Nxc3 Nxc3 8.Rb2 Ne2 9.a4 Kf2 10.a5 f5 11.Rb7 Ng1+ 12.Kh4 Nxf3+ 13.Kh5 Nxd4 14.Rxa7 f4 15.Rf7 -+ (-1.65) Depth: 14 00:00:26 11648kN 5...Qc3 6.Ne2+ Kf1 7.Nxc3 Nxc3 8.Rb2 Ne2 9.Kh4 Kf2 10.Kh5 Kxf3 11.Rb7 Nf4+ 12.Kh6 Ne6 13.Rxa7 Nxd4 14.Rf7 f5 -+ (-1.51) Depth: 15 00:00:47 22127kN Uri
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