Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: More correct analysis here...

Author: Andrew Dados

Date: 15:34:52 02/01/02

Go up one level in this thread


On February 01, 2002 at 18:08:39, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On February 01, 2002 at 15:10:14, Andrew Dados wrote:
>
>>On February 01, 2002 at 00:28:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 31, 2002 at 14:04:13, Andrew Dados wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>From their own publication, 'Deep Blue', June 2001
>>>>Example of search depths over one position
>>>>r1r1q1k1/6p1/3b1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w
>>>>from DB-Kasparow game 2 from 1997, before move 37
>>>>
>>>>When chips were set to minimum fullwith 4 plys:
>>>>
>>>>A.Iteration
>>>>B.Minimum software depth
>>>>C.Maximum software depth
>>>>D.Maximum Estimated combined depth
>>>>
>>>>A  B  C    D
>>>>----------------
>>>>6  2  5  11-21
>>>>7  3  6  12-22
>>>>8  4  11 17-27
>>>>9  5  15 21-31
>>>>10 6  17 23-33
>>>>11 7  20 26-36
>>>>12 8  23 29-39
>>>>
>>>>So iteration is clearly the sum of minimum software depth (B) and hardware depth
>>>>(4 plys here).
>>>>
>>>>-Andrew-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>OK... but what does this have to do with the current discussion?  DB doesn't
>>>report "an iteration number".  It reports things like 10(6) and directly
>>>according to Hsu (from the email I posted) 10 is the software depth, and (6)
>>>is the hardware depth.  They are _added_ to get the total depth...
>>
>>Why would they publish a table to depth 12 if they searched till d=18 in real
>>game?
>>
>>Recap:
>>
>>Arguments for depths of 17-18:
>>
>>1) Your email from Hsu
>>2) DB logs, which show something, like 8(4) line followed by 8(6) line.
>>
>>Arguments against reaching d=18:
>>1) Quotes by David Fotland from Dr Campbell on RGCC as I reposted here.
>>
>>2) According to their publication avg search speed over DB-Kasparov match was
>>126M nps. As you and Ed noted ebf of DB is 4. No matter how they prune, those 2
>>numbers stand.
>>
>>Then time to finish depth 18 would be x*4^17/126Mnps, where x depends on search
>>model, qsearch, extensions, SE etc. That x can not be less then 30 (no qsearch),
>>more like 1000 for their search model. 4^17/126Mnps = 136 sec.
>>for x=30 we get 68 minutes to finish depth 18; for x=1000 we'll get 2266
>>minutes. In the match DB searched for about 3 minutes/move.
>>
>>3) When DB sees some tactics in 10(6) line, is was noted that current PC
>>programs see that in depths 10-12 (current programs heavily prune and extend way
>>less comparing to DB).
>
>
>>No matter what is true, you have to agree some things are not consistent here.
>
>Right.
>
>Now let's have a look at things from Bob's point of view and assume the
>information is correct. Most of the time the logs shows 10(6) and 11(6). Can the
>host (the IBM RS/6000 SP from 1997) do a 10-11 ply brute force search with all
>those heavy extensions? If so, it then will all depend how fast the chess chips
>are doing their 6 ply searches. Each chip is claimed to do 2-2½M NPS. I can not
>find an average time for doing a typical 6 ply search in the hardware but if is
>an accepatable time it is maybe doable?

As I recall chips were set to abort the search after 8000 nodes and report back
to host for possible split. So timeout would occur in 1/250 sec. I have no info
on average chip nodecounts, though.

>
>Ed
>
>
>>-Andrew-



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.