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Subject: Re: More correct analysis here...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 16:57:59 02/03/02

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On February 03, 2002 at 13:43:28, Jeremiah Penery wrote:

>On February 03, 2002 at 07:40:27, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>>There are other "hints" about this.  Remember that the chess hardware has
>>>absolutely no way to return a PV move of any kind.  So _every_ PV you see
>>>produced by their program was absolutely searched by the software part of
>>>the machine _only_.  When you see 10(6) you can now _know_ that in addition
>>>to whatever PV you see (and it may well not be a full PV as they could only
>>>get the PV from the hash table which is not 100% reliable in producing moves
>>>particularly near the end of a PV) there _must_ be at _least_ 6 more PV moves
>>>(non-captures) plus the q-search moves.  The Chess processors didn't do SE,
>>>but it did do classic extensions like in-check and recapture, because it was
>>>copied directly from Belle which did the same things.
>>>
>>>In short, _every_ PV you see has at least (N) more non-capture moves on the
>>>end of it, plus their q-search...  If you look at their output carefully,
>>>you begin to get the idea of their search, because it is _definitely_ a fact
>>>that the hardware provides no PV information of any kind, period.  Look at the
>>>PVs you see and when you realize that they can only come from the X(Y) (the X
>>>part only) part of the search, things begin to make sense.  Vincent sees a
>>>8(4) depth and 12 moves and says "aha, that is obviously a 12 ply search and
>>>PV" even though it should now be obvious that that 12 ply PV came from the 8
>>>part of the software search, not from the 4 part of the hardware search.
>>
>>I'm a bit fuzzy on the accuracy of the PV we're seeing in the logs then.
>>Presuming that the PVs are only the software PVs, then these may still have been
>>subject to changes afterwards, no? After all, it's not uncommon to search to a
>>given depth and say that move A is best, but with greater depth (as the hardware
>>will provide) move B is shown to be best. I haven't examined the logs in detail
>>as some here have, so I'm presuming that such an inconsistency isn't there, but
>>if the hardware extensions aren't capable of changing the decision making, what
>>good are they? Or were they simply fortunate that this never happened in the
>>match and that is why we don't see it in the logs. I.e. a main move in the
>>software-based PV that was different from the move actually played due to later
>>corrections provided by the hardware extensions.
>
>
>It seems this is what happened on the famous move 36 of game 2, where it
>suddenly changed its mind from Qb6 to axb5.  I don't know if it happened
>elsewhere.


Not at all, there.  It just used way more time to find a new best move as
the previous best move had dropped in score significantly.



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