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Subject: Re: The probability to find better move is simply irrelevant for diminishing

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:33:14 02/10/02

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On February 10, 2002 at 04:08:31, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On February 09, 2002 at 22:31:20, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>>>It is pretty straight thru 15-16 plies...  By experiment.  Which means at
>>>>least "for a while" deeper is better.  And it _could_ be straight all the
>>>>way to the depth where we discover the game-theoretic value.  Beyond that
>>>>point searches can't improve things of course...
>>>
>>>By experiment we probably can't decide either way.
>>>
>>>Say 13-14 gives a 70 point increase, then 14-15 may only give you 69 extra
>>>points and 15-16 gives you 68 poins.
>>>
>>>This is diminishing returns, but 1 elo probably can't be measured by experiment.
>>>
>>>The diviation from linearity is probably within the errorbars of the
>>>experiments, so I think the experiments are inconclusive rather than in support
>>>of the no DR theory.
>>>
>>>-S.
>>
>>I simply say there is no evidence to support a diminishing return theory.  It
>>might happen, or it might not.  Experimental data from today's programs,
>>searching to depths they might reach in the next couple of years, suggests that
>>no such diminishing return occurs for at least the next few plies.
>
>Okay, I think you didn't understand what I said. Let me try again:
>The experiments don't prove there's isn't DR or that there is DR, they show
>_only_ that if there is DR, then it is less than the errorbars in the
>experiment.
>
>Since you do not know how large a DR effect to look for, how can you say there
>is no evidence of it?
>Probably you have not yet designed a test to reveal it, it is like saying you
>don't believe in atoms because you can't see them through a magnifyingglass :)
>
>One can argue that if the effect is so small then it is not practical
>significant, so "no diminishing returns" is close enough ;)
>
>-S.


Note that I qualified my answer.  "there is no apparent DR for searches that
we do today, or searches we might do in 2 years."  I really don't care if there
is a .01 DR per ply for the next 5 plies.  I only care that there is a definite
and pretty constant gain from 12 to 15 plies, which will take me several more
years to pass.  IE thru depth 15, I am _certain_ that the gains will be both
measurable and significant.  That will hold me for a while.  I'll let those
that are 2 years old worry about what happens 100 years out from now. :)




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