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Subject: Re: 6 man tablebase question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:31:08 02/11/02

Go up one level in this thread


On February 11, 2002 at 03:35:14, Angrim wrote:

>On February 10, 2002 at 23:37:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 10, 2002 at 18:55:59, Angrim wrote:
>>
>>>On February 09, 2002 at 22:35:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
><snip>
>>>>Several issues:
>>>>
>>>>1.  6 piece files are going to require some large mate-in-N scores.  IE they
>>>>will need 16 bits at least, which doubles the size compared to a current 5
>>>>piece file where all scores are 8 bits max.
>>>
>>>This doubles the size of the file before compression, but has little
>>>effect on the size of the compressed file. At least as long as the
>>>majority of the positions in the file are relatively short mates or
>>>draws.  Only the positions which are long mates will take extra
>>>space after compression.  Compression could be further improved by
>>>switching to building DTC tables.
>>>
>>
>>Think about that a moment, and you will see it is a flawed statement.  IF
>>the file is 2x larger _before_ compression it will most likely be 2x larger
>>_after_ compression.  Otherwise you are saying that larger files compress
>>more than smaller files which is a simply flaw in reasoning.
>
>I am saying that these specific 2x larger files will compress far
>more than the equivalent smaller files.  Storeing a "5" in 2 bytes
>does not change how many bits long its corresponding huffman code is.
>It seems that you either forgot to "think about that a moment" before
>you advised me to do so, or you have never studied even the basics of
>file compression.
>
>As a simple test, try building one of the 4 or 5pc files using 16 bits
>per position, and compress that.  Compare the resulting file size to
>the size of the same file built with 8bits per position.
>One experiment can save a lot of argument.
>
>
>>>>2.  another piece multiplies the size by roughly 60.
>>>
>>>yep.
>>>>3.  Unknown compression ability.  We already have some 6 piece files that
>>>>are 3+ gigabytes.  These are pawnless which have max symmetry.  Pawns will
>>>>increase that significantly.
>>>
>>>I assume that is 3gig before compression. I would expect that
>>>6pc tables with one pawn(ie. KRPvKRN as a possible worst case) to
>>>take around 3GB compressed.
>>
>>
>>No.. That is 3 gigs _after_ compression.
>
>My mistake, I was thinking about the size of only the wtm half
>of the table.  My estimate for KRPvKRN should have been 6GB then.
>And having seen Eugene's post with the actual size for KRBvKRN,
>I see that he is getting a little less compression than I had
>estimated, I would have figured 2.8GB for both sides of that
>one. So boost my estimate for KRPvKRN up to 7GB compressed for
>both sides.
>
>Angrim


I am talking about a _single_ file.  _one_.  Either wtm or btm.  And we have
at least one that is just over 3 gigs already.  Again, _one_ file.  Not one
pair of files.

As far as the compression goes, what says that _most_ of the data will have
leading zeroes?



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