Author: Roberto Waldteufel
Date: 11:07:31 06/25/98
Go up one level in this thread
On June 25, 1998 at 12:15:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On June 25, 1998 at 08:07:53, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: > >> >>On June 25, 1998 at 06:35:40, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>> >>>On June 25, 1998 at 04:54:02, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Here's another question about Hsu's chess chip. I seem to recall reading some >>>>time ago that Hsu was considering a commercial release of his chip. Does anyone >>>>know anything more about this? If the chip were to become available, how could I >>>>use it in conjunction with a PC? would the fixed depth not be "out of sync" for >>>>the speed of, eg a Pentium 333Mhz if it was designed to work with a >>>>supercomputer, or can the fixed depth be adjusted to redo the balancing act in >>>>the new environment? If it were possible, I would be very interested in >>>>experimenting with this sort of hardware coupling. I assume that it would extend >>>>the depth to which a program could search by something like 4 extra plies within >>>>the same time. This would surely improve the strength of the PC ches programs >>>>quite a lot! >>>> >>>>Roberto >>> >>>You see it wrong. If you do 4 ply searches without hash etc, then >>>2.5 million drops quickly to say 300k nodes a second. >>> >>>So in fact you're playing against a kind of fritz5, which DOES search >>>all leafs fullwidth, which gives you some extra tactics, so commercial against >>>programs which are only tested at the same hardware and are only >>>busy with outbooking and trying to finish the game by means of tactics, >>>you beat with big numbers then, but it will play horrible. >>> >>>Vincent >> >>Hi Vincent, >> >>I'm not sure I understand - can you explain what yo mean. I do use hash tables - >>would not the Chip have access to my system's RAM? And When you say it would >>play horribly, why so? how could the chip make it play any worse than without >>the chip? >> >>Best wishes, >> >>Roberto > > >you have to ignore part of what vincent writes, because he is an "anti-deepblue" >person from way back. A couple of key points: > >1. no a chess processor could not see your RAM. But they do have their own >hash table memory. > >2. a PC program with one of these chips attached would be far and away stronger >than any existing computer chess program running on a PC. A chess board that >they used had 8 processors n it. A PC could use the same approach, and search >at about 20 million nodes per second. > >I pointed out to Vincent last week here that he was not doing well playing >against Crafty. He pointed out (factually, by the way) that Crafty has a >hardware advantage with the 4 processor ALR. But he's going to have to take >a stand on one side of the fence or the other. Either speed is important, and >his note about me having faster hardware does explain why crafty wins most of >the games played on ICC, or speed is not important and doesn't explain crafty's >win/lose ratio vs the various DiepX programs on ICC. > >I believe in a combination of speed and intelligent. DB has that. A PC-card >with one or more DB processors would *still* have that. And it would produce >unheard-of performance figures for a PC-based chess program. Ala' Deep Blue >Junior, which is basically a PC with a chess board (actually an IBM single-cpu >workstation with a VME-bus chess card, so don't start hoping to buy one of those >and plug it into your PCI bus. :) > >Bob Thanks bob. I begin to get the picture. I must say that in the search strategy department I have an instinctive leaning toward your way of thinking. I truly believe that speed matters very much, and I cannot understand why Vincent is "anti-DB". (unless it's to do with IBM's motives, rather than their achievements - I think the former sucks, but the latter is truly monumental) I think it is a great pity if Hsu's chip is not to be made available for PC users. I'm just itching to get my hands on that sort of search speed! If anyone who reads this post is going to attend the conference, would they please enquire if there are any plans to release the chip in a form we could use? Best wishes, Roberto
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