Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 11:53:12 06/25/98
Go up one level in this thread
On June 25, 1998 at 14:07:31, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: > >On June 25, 1998 at 12:15:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On June 25, 1998 at 08:07:53, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >> >>> >>>On June 25, 1998 at 06:35:40, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>On June 25, 1998 at 04:54:02, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Here's another question about Hsu's chess chip. I seem to recall reading some >>>>>time ago that Hsu was considering a commercial release of his chip. Does anyone >>>>>know anything more about this? If the chip were to become available, how could I >>>>>use it in conjunction with a PC? would the fixed depth not be "out of sync" for >>>>>the speed of, eg a Pentium 333Mhz if it was designed to work with a >>>>>supercomputer, or can the fixed depth be adjusted to redo the balancing act in >>>>>the new environment? If it were possible, I would be very interested in >>>>>experimenting with this sort of hardware coupling. I assume that it would extend >>>>>the depth to which a program could search by something like 4 extra plies within >>>>>the same time. This would surely improve the strength of the PC ches programs >>>>>quite a lot! >>>>> >>>>>Roberto >>>> >>>>You see it wrong. If you do 4 ply searches without hash etc, then >>>>2.5 million drops quickly to say 300k nodes a second. >>>> >>>>So in fact you're playing against a kind of fritz5, which DOES search >>>>all leafs fullwidth, which gives you some extra tactics, so commercial against >>>>programs which are only tested at the same hardware and are only >>>>busy with outbooking and trying to finish the game by means of tactics, >>>>you beat with big numbers then, but it will play horrible. >>>> >>>>Vincent >>> >>>Hi Vincent, >>> >>>I'm not sure I understand - can you explain what yo mean. I do use hash tables - >>>would not the Chip have access to my system's RAM? And When you say it would >>>play horribly, why so? how could the chip make it play any worse than without >>>the chip? >>> >>>Best wishes, >>> >>>Roberto >> >> >>you have to ignore part of what vincent writes, because he is an "anti-deepblue" >>person from way back. A couple of key points: >> >>1. no a chess processor could not see your RAM. But they do have their own >>hash table memory. >> >>2. a PC program with one of these chips attached would be far and away stronger >>than any existing computer chess program running on a PC. A chess board that >>they used had 8 processors n it. A PC could use the same approach, and search >>at about 20 million nodes per second. >> >>I pointed out to Vincent last week here that he was not doing well playing >>against Crafty. He pointed out (factually, by the way) that Crafty has a >>hardware advantage with the 4 processor ALR. But he's going to have to take >>a stand on one side of the fence or the other. Either speed is important, and >>his note about me having faster hardware does explain why crafty wins most of >>the games played on ICC, or speed is not important and doesn't explain crafty's >>win/lose ratio vs the various DiepX programs on ICC. >> >>I believe in a combination of speed and intelligent. DB has that. A PC-card >>with one or more DB processors would *still* have that. And it would produce >>unheard-of performance figures for a PC-based chess program. Ala' Deep Blue >>Junior, which is basically a PC with a chess board (actually an IBM single-cpu >>workstation with a VME-bus chess card, so don't start hoping to buy one of those >>and plug it into your PCI bus. :) >> >>Bob > >Thanks bob. I begin to get the picture. I must say that in the search strategy >department I have an instinctive leaning toward your way of thinking. I truly >believe that speed matters very much, and I cannot understand why Vincent is >"anti-DB". (unless it's to do with IBM's motives, rather than their achievements >- I think the former sucks, but the latter is truly monumental) I think it is a >great pity if Hsu's chip is not to be made available for PC users. I'm just >itching to get my hands on that sort of search speed! If anyone who reads this >post is going to attend the conference, would they please enquire if there are >any plans to release the chip in a form we could use? > >Best wishes, > >Roberto No idea about their plans. I once told Hsu that if they disband the project, I knew a "deserving young man" that would go out and *buy* a VME-bus machine to use one of their boards... :)
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