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Subject: Re: Van Wely - Century contd. VW is winning

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:54:23 02/20/02

Go up one level in this thread


On February 20, 2002 at 15:42:54, Uri Blass wrote:

>On February 20, 2002 at 15:41:17, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 20, 2002 at 14:47:59, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On February 20, 2002 at 13:45:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 20, 2002 at 12:18:56, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 20, 2002 at 12:10:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 20, 2002 at 12:00:12, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On February 20, 2002 at 11:29:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Don't understand the king safety evaluation here myself.  All Crafty will
>>>>>>>>consider for black is Nxe5.  Handling this kind of position is critical when
>>>>>>>>playing on ICC for example...  "Thou shalt not attack thyself..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All Crafty will ever think is 'thou shalt not attack..." :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  int king_safety_asymmetry =                  -40;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Horrors!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>GCP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Whatever it takes to survive.  Better to defend and win than to attack
>>>>>>and lose...  which is _very_ common against a few particular players on
>>>>>>ICC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Why open up both yourself _and_ your opponent and hope _you_ get the attack
>>>>>>going first?  Humans are _better_ at analyzing such positions than any computer
>>>>>>program around.  Playing right into their strength is incredibly dangerous...
>>>>>
>>>>>Playing tournament time control game is not the same as playing in ICC and I
>>>>>guess that van wely could try a different strategy against Crafty.
>>>>
>>>>Why would you think that?  Crafty plays _plenty_ of long games on ICC, and
>>>>those are the games I generally use to adjust things, _not_ the more numerous
>>>>blitz games that happen.  I generally ignore those unless I see some sort of
>>>>long-term trend taking shape...
>>>
>>>I guess that most of the long games are at faster time control than 120/40.
>>
>>Most FIDE games are faster than 120/40 in fact...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Van wely plays against the opponent so it is natural that he is going to play
>>>>>for positions that Rebel does not know to play and not for positions that other
>>>>>programs do not know to play.
>>>>
>>>>I don't agree.  I don't think he knows a lot about Rebel 4.  He is just playing
>>>>positions that computers in general don't understand.  I have played him many
>>>>games on ICC as have others.  He has a good idea of what computers can and can't
>>>>do, in general.  And, in general, _all_ have the same basic weaknesses...  Some
>>>>moreso than others of course.
>>>
>>>The games you played against him are not the important tournament games that he
>>>plays against Rebel.
>>>
>>>He boought Rebel Century few weeks before the match in order to learn about it's
>>>weaknesses.
>>>
>>>He could simply download Crafty or use anohter program that he has
>>>if his target was only to play anti-computer chess.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>He has _done_ that.  He plays _lots_ of computer games on the server.  He has
>>played matches against computers in fact, for amusement.  Other GMs have done
>>the same (Shirov comes to mind but there are lots of others).
>>
>>You can play any of several computers and begin to get an idea of what computers
>>can and can't do well...
>
>My point was that for this match he bought Rebel and did not only try to play
>against computers.
>
>Uri


Yes, but he already _knew_ about computer weaknesses in general.  He might
well have found a very specific something in Rebel that he wanted to exploit.
But today's game just looked like what he normally tries against computers.

I have watched him give one overly aggressive program a bad beating because it
would way over-extend and he understood _exactly_ which squares needed defending
and when...



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