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Subject: Re: computerchess...

Author: Martin Giepmans

Date: 04:36:36 02/21/02

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On February 21, 2002 at 05:32:44, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>Firstival on has to say that Ed Schroeder has written on his web site that
>Century4 plays not in the normal setting but in the anti-GM setting.
>
>I will not comment on this, since i do not have
>enough experience in how this setting changes rebel century4 playing style
>and strength.
>
>But what i can do is, to replay the
>games with rebel-century4 macheide and other programs (on my Athlon C-1200 mhz).
>
>
>1.
>Macheide would have taken 12...Nxg3?! too (+0.36 for black).
>Shredder6.32 (the leader of the ssdf-computer-rating-list)
>would not have taken on g3 (0.06 for black Nxe5).
>Fritz7.0.06 Nxe5 with -0.04 for black.
>CSTal2.03 Nxe5 with +0.44 for black.
>Gambit-Tiger14.6 Nxg3 with +0.12.
>
>2.
>The next "strange" move is 13...Rc8?!.
>
>Macheide would have played 13...Nxe5 with +0.32 for black.
>Shredder6.32 would have played 13...Nxe5 (+0.08 for white).
>Fritz7.0.0.6 Nxe5 with +0.00.
>CSTal2.03 Nxe5 with -0.01 against black.
>Gambit-Tiger14.6 Nxe5 with -0.08.
>
>3.
>the move 14...Bd6?.
>
>Macheide 14...c4 with +0.30 for black.
>Shredder6.32 14...cxd4 with +0.43 for white.
>Fritz7.0.0.6 with Nxe5 +0.25 for white.
>CSTal2.03 c4 with -0.09 against black.
>Gambit-Tiger14.6 plays Bd6 with -0.32.
>
>
>
>4.
>the move 17...Rcc7!?.
>
>Macheide wants to play fxg5 with -1.13 against black.
>Shredder6.32 wants to play Bf8 with +2.18 for white.
>Fritz7.0.0.6 fxg5 +1.15 for white.
>CSTal2.03 fxg5 -1.64 against black.
>Gambit-Tiger14.6 plays fxg5 with -1.52.
>
>
>
>5.
>the move 22...Qe8!?.
>
>Macheide plays Qe8 with -1.75 against black.
>Shredder6.32 plays Bc7 with +2.56 for white.
>Fritz7.0.0.6 plays Qe8 with +1.90 for white.
>CSTal2.03 plays h6 with -1.67 against black.
>Gambit-Tiger14.6 plays Qe8 with -2.52.
>
>
>Conclusion:
>
>I think, when we can learn something out of the second game,
>than it is how important it is to change computerchess paradigm.
>
>MANY chess programs are helpless against a human beeing playing
>this kind of chess against them.
>
>And trying to be the best in the swedish-rating list will not
>wipe out the illusion that getting the first rank has not much to
>with chess at all. We are always talking about the programs
>making progress. When i see Van Wely playing such a nice game,
>i see almost no progress in computerchess at all.
>
>The question has to be: why is their no progress ?
>
>I think i know the asnwer. Because nobody is interested to
>make a different approach. The programmers are most often
>interested in killing their opponent, their major enemy
>in the ssdf-list, or their major opponent in a tournament
>or world-computer-chess championship. Maybe this is the right
>target in such a microcosmos. but then computerchess is only
>a subgroup, a microcosmos in the macrocosmos chess.

I think many programmers *are* interested in a different approach.
I'm sure that most of them are not satisfied with JASC (just another
stupid calculator).
And there has been progress.
But implementing the subtle strategical understanding of a strong
human player is very difficult.
If you know how to do it, please tell me :)

Martin


>Maybe we can call computerchess: 2 dimensional chess. Flat chess.
>
>Those games let us feel that we need another dimension.
>
>In the same way - btw - physicist tried to throw the spirit out
>of the science. as if their brains had no spirit.
>
>Good that Jean E. Charon brought the spirit back with its
>complex relativity theory.
>
>Where are the Charons of computerchess ??



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