Author: Jeroen van Dorp
Date: 07:53:21 02/23/02
Go up one level in this thread
I suppose you use the engine match or tournament feature under a Fritz (7) GUI?
Why then assume it's a tablebase problem? 67...Kg5 is indicated correctly as a
draw by the tablebases, as well as the move Kg4 is correctly named as the only
winning move. So *they* do nothing wrong.
The problem obviously lies either in the engine routine choosing the correct
tablebase move, or maybe in the enginematch engine
For that I made a little experiment with your game up to move 67 of white as an
opening DB and matched Fritz 7 and Shredder 6 with each other.
Controls etc are not important.
You can see glitches (or better differences) in the games.
In game one, the result tells me that move 63 is both last book move. Wrong, as
it is move 67. But maybe looking at the tb's here first is being actually
detected a tablebase mate, so concluding that where the tablebase mate detection
starts, the book ends. Fritz is detecting the first mate, as black.
Next game no "last book move at all, but detection by Shredder with black of a
mate starting at move 63 again.
Third game: 67 both last book moves! And fritz with black again detecting the
first mate.
Fourth game: no last book move again, and black (Shredder) first to detect
tablebase mate at move 67.
It's clear that -as the opening DB ends with a move by white, black is the first
to use the engine and detect a tablebase mate. But why twice at move 63, and
twice at move 67 as it needs to be?
And why twice "last book move" and twice none?
I don't think it's the tablebases, nor the engines, I think it's the tournament
or engine match player.
Jeroen
[Event "CyberJerry, Blitz:10'"]
[Site "CyberJerry"]
[Date "2002.02.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Shredder 6"]
[Black "Fritz 7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E48"]
[PlyCount "156"]
{W=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
B=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O
5. Bd3 c5 6. Nge2 d5 7. cxd5 cxd4 8. exd4 Nxd5 9. O-O Nc6 10. Qc2 h6 11. a3 Bd6
12. Be3 Re8 13. Bh7+ Kh8 14. Be4 Qh4 15. h3 Nce7 16. Qb3 Rd8 17. Rac1 a6 18.
Nxd5 Nxd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. Qb6 a5 21. Qb5 a4 22. Rfe1 Bd7 23. Qxb7 Rab8 24.
Qa6 Qf6 25. Qa5 Rxb2 26. Ra1 Re8 27. Qxd5 Bc6 28. Qa5 Bb5 29. Rab1 Rxb1 30.
Rxb1 Bxe2 31. Qxa4 Rc8 32. Rc1 Rxc1+ 33. Bxc1 Qe7 34. Qa5 Ba6 35. Kh1 Bb7 36.
Be3 Bxa3 37. Bf4 Bb2 38. Qe5 Qd7 39. Qb8+ Kh7 40. f3 Bxd4 41. Kh2 Qf5 42. Qd6
Bd5 43. h4 g5 44. Bg3 gxh4 45. Bf4 Bf6 46. Qb4 h3 47. gxh3 Qd3 48. Qd2 Qxf3 49.
Qxd5 Qxd5 50. h4 Be5 51. Bxe5 Qxe5+ 52. Kg2 Qg3+ 53. Kxg3 Kg6 54. Kf4 Kf6 55.
Ke4 Ke6 56. h5 f5+ 57. Kf4 Kf6 58. Kf3 Kg5 59. Kg3 f4+ 60. Kf3 Kf5 61. Kf2 Kg4
62. Kg2 Kh4 63. Kf3 Kg5 {Both last book move -#16/1} 64. Ke2 {-#15/1} 64...
Kxh5 {-#15/1} 65. Kf3 {-#15/1} 65... Kg5 {-#14/1} 66. Ke4 {-#13/1} 66... h5 {
-#13/1} 67. Kd3 {(Kd4) -#12/1} 67... h4 {-#12/1} 68. Ke2 {(Ke4) -#12/1} 68...
h3 {-#11/1} 69. Kf2 {(Kf3) -#10/1} 69... Kg4 {(Kf5) -#10/1} 70. Kf1 {-#10/1}
70... f3 {-#9/1} 71. Kg1 {-#9/1} 71... Kf4 {-#8/1} 72. Kf1 {-#7/1} 72... h2 {
-#7/1} 73. Kf2 {-#6/1} 73... Ke4 {-#6/1} 74. Ke1 {-#6/1} 74... f2+ {-#5/1} 75.
Kxf2 {-#4/1} 75... h1=Q {-#4/1} 76. Ke2 {-#3/1} 76... Qg2+ {-#3/1} 77. Kd1 {
(Ke1) -#2/1} 77... Kd3 {-#2/1} 78. Kc1 {-#1/1} 78... Qc2# 0-1
[Event "CyberJerry, Blitz:10'"]
[Site "CyberJerry"]
[Date "2002.02.23"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Fritz 7"]
[Black "Shredder 6"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E48"]
[PlyCount "156"]
{W=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
B=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O
5. Bd3 c5 6. Nge2 d5 7. cxd5 cxd4 8. exd4 Nxd5 9. O-O Nc6 10. Qc2 h6 11. a3 Bd6
12. Be3 Re8 13. Bh7+ Kh8 14. Be4 Qh4 15. h3 Nce7 16. Qb3 Rd8 17. Rac1 a6 18.
Nxd5 Nxd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. Qb6 a5 21. Qb5 a4 22. Rfe1 Bd7 23. Qxb7 Rab8 24.
Qa6 Qf6 25. Qa5 Rxb2 26. Ra1 Re8 27. Qxd5 Bc6 28. Qa5 Bb5 29. Rab1 Rxb1 30.
Rxb1 Bxe2 31. Qxa4 Rc8 32. Rc1 Rxc1+ 33. Bxc1 Qe7 34. Qa5 Ba6 35. Kh1 Bb7 36.
Be3 Bxa3 37. Bf4 Bb2 38. Qe5 Qd7 39. Qb8+ Kh7 40. f3 Bxd4 41. Kh2 Qf5 42. Qd6
Bd5 43. h4 g5 44. Bg3 gxh4 45. Bf4 Bf6 46. Qb4 h3 47. gxh3 Qd3 48. Qd2 Qxf3 49.
Qxd5 Qxd5 50. h4 Be5 51. Bxe5 Qxe5+ 52. Kg2 Qg3+ 53. Kxg3 Kg6 54. Kf4 Kf6 55.
Ke4 Ke6 56. h5 f5+ 57. Kf4 Kf6 58. Kf3 Kg5 59. Kg3 f4+ 60. Kf3 Kf5 61. Kf2 Kg4
62. Kg2 Kh4 63. Kf3 Kg5 {-#16/1} 64. Ke2 {-#15/1} 64... Kxh5 {-#15/1} 65. Kf3 {
-#15/1} 65... Kg5 {-#14/1} 66. Ke4 {-#13/1} 66... h5 {-#13/1} 67. Kd3 {
(Kd4) -#12/1} 67... h4 {-#12/1} 68. Ke2 {(Ke4) -#12/1} 68... h3 {-#11/1} 69.
Kf2 {(Kf3) -#10/1} 69... Kg4 {(Kf5) -#10/1} 70. Kf1 {-#10/1} 70... f3 {-#9/1}
71. Kg1 {-#9/1} 71... Kf4 {-#8/1} 72. Kf1 {-#7/1} 72... h2 {-#7/1} 73. Kf2 {
-#6/1} 73... Ke4 {-#6/1} 74. Ke1 {-#6/1} 74... f2+ {-#5/1} 75. Kxf2 {-#4/1}
75... h1=Q {-#4/1} 76. Ke2 {-#3/1} 76... Qg2+ {-#3/1} 77. Kd1 {(Ke1) -#2/1}
77... Kd3 {-#2/1} 78. Kc1 {-#1/1} 78... Qc2# 0-1
[Event "CyberJerry, Blitz:10'"]
[Site "CyberJerry"]
[Date "2002.02.23"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Shredder 6"]
[Black "Fritz 7"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E48"]
[PlyCount "160"]
{W=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
B=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O
5. Bd3 c5 6. Nge2 d5 7. cxd5 cxd4 8. exd4 Nxd5 9. O-O Nc6 10. Qc2 h6 11. a3 Bd6
12. Be3 Re8 13. Bh7+ Kh8 14. Be4 Qh4 15. h3 Nce7 16. Qb3 Rd8 17. Rac1 a6 18.
Nxd5 Nxd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. Qb6 a5 21. Qb5 a4 22. Rfe1 Bd7 23. Qxb7 Rab8 24.
Qa6 Qf6 25. Qa5 Rxb2 26. Ra1 Re8 27. Qxd5 Bc6 28. Qa5 Bb5 29. Rab1 Rxb1 30.
Rxb1 Bxe2 31. Qxa4 Rc8 32. Rc1 Rxc1+ 33. Bxc1 Qe7 34. Qa5 Ba6 35. Kh1 Bb7 36.
Be3 Bxa3 37. Bf4 Bb2 38. Qe5 Qd7 39. Qb8+ Kh7 40. f3 Bxd4 41. Kh2 Qf5 42. Qd6
Bd5 43. h4 g5 44. Bg3 gxh4 45. Bf4 Bf6 46. Qb4 h3 47. gxh3 Qd3 48. Qd2 Qxf3 49.
Qxd5 Qxd5 50. h4 Be5 51. Bxe5 Qxe5+ 52. Kg2 Qg3+ 53. Kxg3 Kg6 54. Kf4 Kf6 55.
Ke4 Ke6 56. h5 f5+ 57. Kf4 Kf6 58. Kf3 Kg5 59. Kg3 f4+ 60. Kf3 Kf5 61. Kf2 Kg4
62. Kg2 Kh4 63. Kf3 Kg5 64. Ke2 Kg4 65. Kf2 f3 66. Kf1 Kh4 67. Kf2 Kg4 {
Both last book move -#14/1} 68. Kf1 {-#14/1} 68... Kxh5 {-#13/1} 69. Kf2 {
-#12/1} 69... Kg4 {-#12/1} 70. Ke3 {-#11/1} 70... Kg3 {-#11/1} 71. Kd2 {
(Kd3) -#10/1} 71... f2 {-#10/1} 72. Ke2 {-#10/1} 72... Kg2 {-#9/1} 73. Ke3 {
-#8/1} 73... f1=Q {(h5) -#8/1} 74. Kd4 {-#8/1} 74... Qb5 {-#7/1} 75. Ke4 {-#6/1
} 75... Qc5 {(Qe2+) -#6/1} 76. Kf4 {-#6/1} 76... Qd5 {-#5/1} 77. Ke3 {-#5/1}
77... Qc4 {-#4/1} 78. Kd2 {-#4/1} 78... Kf2 {-#3/1} 79. Kd1 {-#3/1} 79... Ke3 {
-#2/1} 80. Ke1 {-#2/1} 80... Qe2# 0-1
[Event "CyberJerry, Blitz:10'"]
[Site "CyberJerry"]
[Date "2002.02.23"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Fritz 7"]
[Black "Shredder 6"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E48"]
[PlyCount "160"]
{W=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
B=1.0 ply; 0kN/s
} 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 O-O
5. Bd3 c5 6. Nge2 d5 7. cxd5 cxd4 8. exd4 Nxd5 9. O-O Nc6 10. Qc2 h6 11. a3 Bd6
12. Be3 Re8 13. Bh7+ Kh8 14. Be4 Qh4 15. h3 Nce7 16. Qb3 Rd8 17. Rac1 a6 18.
Nxd5 Nxd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. Qb6 a5 21. Qb5 a4 22. Rfe1 Bd7 23. Qxb7 Rab8 24.
Qa6 Qf6 25. Qa5 Rxb2 26. Ra1 Re8 27. Qxd5 Bc6 28. Qa5 Bb5 29. Rab1 Rxb1 30.
Rxb1 Bxe2 31. Qxa4 Rc8 32. Rc1 Rxc1+ 33. Bxc1 Qe7 34. Qa5 Ba6 35. Kh1 Bb7 36.
Be3 Bxa3 37. Bf4 Bb2 38. Qe5 Qd7 39. Qb8+ Kh7 40. f3 Bxd4 41. Kh2 Qf5 42. Qd6
Bd5 43. h4 g5 44. Bg3 gxh4 45. Bf4 Bf6 46. Qb4 h3 47. gxh3 Qd3 48. Qd2 Qxf3 49.
Qxd5 Qxd5 50. h4 Be5 51. Bxe5 Qxe5+ 52. Kg2 Qg3+ 53. Kxg3 Kg6 54. Kf4 Kf6 55.
Ke4 Ke6 56. h5 f5+ 57. Kf4 Kf6 58. Kf3 Kg5 59. Kg3 f4+ 60. Kf3 Kf5 61. Kf2 Kg4
62. Kg2 Kh4 63. Kf3 Kg5 64. Ke2 Kg4 65. Kf2 f3 66. Kf1 Kh4 67. Kf2 Kg4 {-#14/1}
68. Kf1 {-#14/1} 68... Kxh5 {-#13/1} 69. Kf2 {-#12/1} 69... Kg4 {-#12/1} 70.
Ke3 {-#11/1} 70... Kg3 {-#11/1} 71. Kd2 {(Kd3) -#10/1} 71... f2 {-#10/1} 72.
Ke2 {-#10/1} 72... Kg2 {-#9/1} 73. Ke3 {-#8/1} 73... f1=Q {(h5) -#8/1} 74. Kd4
{-#8/1} 74... Qb5 {-#7/1} 75. Ke4 {-#6/1} 75... Qc5 {(Qe2+) -#6/1} 76. Kf4 {
-#6/1} 76... Qd5 {-#5/1} 77. Ke3 {-#5/1} 77... Qc4 {-#4/1} 78. Kd2 {-#4/1}
78... Kf2 {-#3/1} 79. Kd1 {-#3/1} 79... Ke3 {-#2/1} 80. Ke1 {-#2/1} 80... Qe2#
0-1
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Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
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