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Subject: Re: Ply depths?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 00:20:11 03/06/02

Go up one level in this thread


On March 05, 2002 at 21:16:51, Steve wrote:

>On March 05, 2002 at 00:10:46, John Merlino wrote:
>
>>On March 04, 2002 at 22:25:28, Sally Weltrop wrote:
>>
>>>On March 04, 2002 at 22:23:28, Sally Weltrop wrote:
>>>
>>>>[D]6k1/6pp/2qb4/8/2pQrNN1/1p3RPP/5P1K/r1B5 w - - 0 36
>>>>
>>>>of course 36)Qxa1 and Black resigns next move!
>>>
>>>
>>>this is taken from the 9th rd of Linares 2002
>>>
>>>Shirov,A (2715) - Ivanchuk,V (2717) [C88]
>>>Linares SuperGM Linares (9), 04.03.2002
>>>
>>>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 0-0 8.a4 Bb7 9.d3
>>>Re8 10.Nbd2 Bf8 11.c3 Na5 12.Ba2 c5 13.d4 d6 14.b4 exd4 15.bxa5 dxc3 16.Nf1 Nxe4
>>>17.axb5 axb5 18.a6 Bc6 19.Rxe4 Bxe4 20.Bxf7+ Kxf7 21.Ng5+ Kg8 22.Nxe4 Qc8
>>>23.Nxc3 Rxa6 24.Rb1 b4 25.Nd5 Ra7 26.Rb3 Ra1 27.h3 Re5 28.Nf4 Qe8 29.Rf3 c4
>>>30.Kh2 b3 31.Qd2 d5 32.Ne3 Bd6 33.g3 Qc6 34.Ng4 d4 35.Qxd4 Re4 36.Qxa1 1-0
>>
>>Two blunders in a row! (perhaps a victim of time pressure heading towards time
>>control?)
>>
>>After 34.Ng4, Ivanchuk is clearly in the lead:
>>
>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>0:00	1/3	-1.86	1524		34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra2 36.Ne6
>>0:00	1/4	-2.47	6025		34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra2 36.Rd3 Rc2
>>0:00	2/5	-2.31	21581		34...Rf5 35.Bb2 Ra2 36.Ne3 Rxf4
>>					37.gxf4
>>0:00	2/6	-1.98	64702		34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra7 36.Bb2 Bxf4
>>					37.Rxf4 Rxf4 38.gxf4
>>0:02	3/7	-1.90	217927		34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra7 36.Ne6 Rxf3
>>					37.Qxf3 Bb4 38.Nd4 Qd6
>>0:08	3/8	-1.47	707718		34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra7 36.Ne6 Rxf3
>>					37.Qxf3 h5 38.Nd4 Qc5
>>0:40	4/9	-1.49	3345172		34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra7 36.Ne3 Be5
>>					37.Qb4 Rff7 38.Nexd5 Bxf4 39.Nxf4
>>					Qxf3 40.Qb8+ Rf8 41.Qxa7
>>2:45	4/10	-1.51	14440411	34...Rf5 35.Qc3 Ra7 36.Ne6 Rxf3
>>					37.Qxf3 h5 38.Ne5 Bxe5 39.Qf8+
>>					Kh7 40.Qf5+ g6 41.Qxe5
>>
>>But when the game is over....
>>
>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>0:00	1/3	3.38	3069		36...Re1 37.Nh5 Qb7 38.Ne3
>>0:00	1/4	3.50	10479		36...Re1 37.Nh5 Qb7 38.Qa5 Qxf3
>>					39.Qxe1
>>0:00	2/5	3.28	34108		36...Re1 37.Nh5 Qb7 38.Kg2 Bb4
>>					39.Qb2
>>0:01	2/6	5.73	116307		36...Re1 37.Qxg7+ Kxg7 38.Nh5+
>>					Kh8 39.Bb2+ c3 40.Bxc3+ Qxc3 41.Rxc3
>>					Re8 42.Rxb3 Re2
>>0:01	2/6	4.06	165811		36...Re7 37.Kg2 Re1 38.Nh5 Bf8
>>					39.Qc3 Qe6 40.Ne3
>>0:02	2/6	3.96	190722		36...Rxf4 37.Rxf4 Bxf4 38.Bxf4
>>					c3 39.Ne5 Qc5 40.Qa8+ Qf8
>>0:04	3/7	4.00	355447		36...Rxf4 37.Rxf4 Bxf4 38.Bxf4
>>					c3 39.Qd1 Qb7 40.Qd8+ Kf7 41.f3
>>0:07	3/8	4.87	709846		36...Rxf4 37.Rxf4 Bxf4 38.Bxf4
>>					c3 39.Qa7 h5 40.Be5 Qg6 41.Qb8+
>>					Kh7 42.Qxb3 hxg4 43.Qxc3 gxh3 44.Kxh3
>>					Qh5+ 45.Kg2
>>0:32	3/8	4.76	2874367		36...Qb7 37.Bb2 h5 38.Ne3 Bxf4
>>					39.Rxf4 Rxf4 40.gxf4 Qe4 41.Bxg7
>>					Qxf4+ 42.Kg1
>>0:54	3/8	4.71	4928413		36...Bxf4 37.Bxf4 Re6 38.Ne5 Qd5
>>					39.Kg2 Rb6 40.Qb2
>>1:41	4/9	5.06	9349513		36...Bxf4 37.Bxf4 Re6 38.Ne5 Qd5
>>					39.Kg2 Re7 40.Qc1 Rc7 41.Qb2
>>
>>ouch.... I don't feel so bad now when I hang a pawn.... ;-)
>>
>>jm
>
>14.4 million positions and a search depth of 4 ply?  What am I missing?

a lot of extension and a different definition.

I believe that the real depth is 9

The meaning of 4 is probably brute force depth
with no null move pruning and no other pruning.

The meaning of 9 is probably the real depth when chessmaster used only the null
move algorithm to prune.

The fact that usually in endgame I see x/x+1 numbers and not x/x+5
supports my opinion because I see no reason to prune less in the endgame
(The opposite-endgame are the best candidate for more pruning rules
unless you talk about null move pruning)

Note that I did not write chessmaster so
I do not know if my guess is correct.

Uri



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