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Subject: Re: What if GM Gulko memorize some openings from these programs !

Author: Jorge Pichard

Date: 10:29:30 03/06/02

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On March 06, 2002 at 11:57:33, Roy Eassa wrote:

What I was wondering was how simple it is for a GM like Gulko to memorize some
of the openings in which these programs follow blindly into a lost position.

Jorge
>
>I wonder how many programs' "book" lines lead to being mated by force (within a
>horizon easily calculable by today's engines in under 30 seconds).
>
>
>
>On March 06, 2002 at 11:54:18, Roy Eassa wrote:
>
>>
>>You are right about the first game (I haven't check the other one yet).  Fritz
>>follows its book right into being mated by force!
>>
>>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 0-0 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1
>>Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.Bd2 Nf6 12.f3 f4 13.c5 g5 14.cxd6 cxd6 15.Rc1 Ng6 16.Nb5 Rf7
>>17.Qc2 Ne8 18.a4 h5 19.Nf2 Bd7 20.Qb3 Bf8 21.h3 Rg7 22.Rc2 Nh4 23.Rfc1 Nf6
>>24.Nc7 g4
>>
>>[d]r2q1bk1/ppNb2r1/3p1n2/3Pp2p/P3Pppn/1Q3P1P/1PRBBNP1/2R3K1 w - - 0 24
>>25.Nxa8? loses, yet is a 'book' move
>>
>>   [25.fxg4 hxg4 26.Bxg4 Nxg4 27.Nxg4 ±]
>>
>>25...gxh3 26.Qxb7
>>
>>   [26.Nc7 Rxg2+ 27.Kf1
>>      (27.Kh1 Qe7 28.Ne6 Qe8 29.Nxf8 Kxf8 30.Be1 Qg6 31.Ng4 Nxg4 32.fxg4 Qxe4
>>-+)
>>    27...h2 28.Ke1 Rg1+ 29.Bf1 Bh3 30.Ke2 Bxf1+ 31.Rxf1 Nxe4 32.fxe4 f3+
>>    33.Kd3 Rxf1 34.Ne6 Qb6 -+]
>>
>>26...Rxg2+ 27.Kh1
>>
>>   [27.Kf1 h2 28.Nh1 Rg1+ 29.Kf2 Nxe4+ 30.fxe4 Qg5 -+]
>>
>>27...Qe8 28.Be1 Qg6 forces mate
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On March 06, 2002 at 06:16:42, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>
>>>The updated Shredder 6 is still Weaker than Fritz 7 in individual match. I will
>>>continue this match up to 40 games.
>>>
>>>PS: I notice that some openings help the program to achieve up to 75% in winning
>>>a game. Simply take a close look at the first two games.
>>>
>>>
>>>Fritz 7 (2710) - Shredder 6 (2715) [E99]
>>>Athlon 1.2 Ghz, 40'/40+40'/40+40' My Place (1), 05.03.2002
>>>
>>>W=4.6 ply; 627kN/s
>>>B=7.0 ply; 262kN/s
>>> 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 0-0 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1
>>>Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.Bd2 Nf6 12.f3 f4 13.c5 g5 14.cxd6 cxd6 15.Rc1 Ng6 16.Nb5 Rf7
>>>17.Qc2 Ne8 18.a4 h5 19.Nf2 Bd7 20.Qb3 Bf8 21.h3 Rg7 22.Rc2 Nh4 23.Rfc1 Nf6
>>>24.Nc7 g4 25.Nxa8 gxh3 26.Qxb7 Rxg2+ 27.Kh1 Qe8 28.Be1 Qg6 Both last book move
>>>29.Ng4  -#7/8  6  Nxg4  -#6/12  8  30.fxg4  -#6/7  0  Qxe4  -#5/12  2  31.Bd3
>>>-#4/6  0  Qf3  -#4/7  0  32.Bh7+  -#3/4  0  Kh8  -#3/5  0  33.Bf2 (Bxh4)  -#2/3
>>>0  33...Rxf2+  -#2/3  0  34.Kg1  -#1/2  0  h2# -#1/1  0  0-1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Shredder 6 (2715) - Fritz 7 (2710) [E99]
>>>Athlon 1.2 Ghz, 40'/40+40'/40+40' My Place (2), 05.03.2002
>>>
>>>W=19.2 ply; 301kN/s
>>>B=4.5 ply; 506kN/s
>>> 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.Nf3 0-0 5.e4 d6 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1
>>>Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.Bd2 Nf6 12.f3 f4 13.c5 g5 14.cxd6 cxd6 15.Rc1 Ng6 16.Nb5 Rf7
>>>17.Qc2 Ne8 18.a4 h5 19.Nf2 Bd7 20.Qb3 Bf8 21.h3 Rg7 22.Rc2 Nh4 23.Rfc1 Nf6
>>>24.Nc7 g4 25.Nxa8 gxh3 26.Qxb7 Rxg2+ 27.Kh1 Qe8 28.Be1 Qg6 Both last book move
>>>29.Ng4  -#6/23  2:24  Nxg4  -#7/7  3  30.fxg4  -#5/24  5:47  Qxe4  -#6/7  0
>>>31.Bd3  -#4/21  5:18  Qf3  -#4/5  0  32.Bh7+  -#3/17  3:25  Kh8  -#3/3  0
>>>33.Bxh4  -#2/18  4:15  Rxc2+  -#2/2  0  34.Kg1  -#1/7  0  Qg2# -#1/2  0  0-1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Fritz 7 (2710) - Shredder 6 (2715) [E19]
>>>Athlon 1.2 Ghz, 40'/40+40'/40+40' My Place (3), 06.03.2002
>>>
>>>W=15.1 ply; 676kN/s
>>>B=14.7 ply; 296kN/s
>>> 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.Nc3 Ne4 8.Qc2 Nxc3
>>>9.Qxc3 c5 10.Rd1 d6 11.b3 Nd7 12.Bb2 Bf6 13.Qc2 Qc7 14.e4 cxd4 15.Nxd4 a6 16.Rd2
>>>Rac8 17.Qd1 Rfe8 18.h4 Both last book move 18...Rcd8  -0.52/12  2:04  19.Qc2
>>>-0.09/14  3:23  Ne5 (Rf8)  -0.43/13  1:55  20.Rad1  -0.06/14  3:03  Qc5
>>>-0.34/13  2:03  21.a3  0.06/13  2:49  Qc7 (Rc8)  -0.25/12  2:46  22.Bc3 (Ne2)
>>>0.00/13  1:17  22...Be7  -0.26/12  1:34  23.Bb4 (Ne2)  0.09/13  1:26  23...h6
>>>(Rc8)  -0.27/12  2:33  24.Bc3 (a4)  0.06/14  3:18  24...Ng4  -0.22/12  2:32
>>>25.Bb2 (Ne2)  0.19/13  1:45  25...Rc8  -0.32/12  1:34  26.Qd3 (Bh3)  0.16/14
>>>2:35  26...Ne5  -0.10/12  1:11  27.Qe3 (Qe2)  0.19/13  1:31  27...Nd7 (Rcd8)
>>>-0.12/12  1:26  28.Ne2  0.22/12  1:02  Qc6 (Nc5)  -0.04/11  2:08  29.Qd4
>>>0.28/11  1:05  Nf6  -0.01/12  1:58  30.Qd3 (Qe3)  0.22/13  2:59  30...Red8
>>>-0.09/12  59  31.Nd4 (Qe3)  0.19/12  1:24  31...Qc7  -0.14/12  34  32.f4 (Ne2)
>>>0.13/13  1:50  32...Nd7  -0.09/12  4:07  33.Qe2 (Ne2)  0.13/12  1:04  33...Nc5
>>>-0.23/12  1:46  34.b4 (Kh2)  0.31/13  1:27  34...Na4 (Nd7)  0.14/13  2:54
>>>35.Ba1  0.47/13  3:13  Bf8 (Qxc4)  0.25/12  1:28  36.Rc2  0.50/12  56  Re8 (Qd7)
>>> 0.29/12  44  37.h5 (Qg4)  0.50/11  45  37...Qd7  0.48/11  48  38.Rcc1  0.50/13
>>>49  Rc7 (Qc7)  0.50/11  36  39.Qd3 (Nb3)  0.31/13  1:51  39...Be7 (Rec8)
>>>0.39/12  1:14  40.Nf3 (Nb3)  0.44/10  7  40...Rd8  0.28/10  17  41.Rd2 (e5)
>>>0.38/11  52  41...b5  -0.11/11  53  42.Rcc2 (Qd4)  0.25/12  1:04  42...bxc4
>>>-0.30/11  1:11  43.Rxc4  0.16/13  1:33  Rxc4 (Rdc8)  -0.30/11  49  44.Qxc4
>>>0.13/12  14  Rc8  -0.47/12  1:13  45.Qd4  0.06/12  2:24  Bf8  -0.36/13  1:48
>>>46.e5 (Rd1)  0.00/13  1:37  46...d5  -0.52/12  46  47.Kh2  -0.03/13  48  a5
>>>(Qc7)  -0.68/12  51  48.bxa5 (Rd1)  0.00/13  48  48...Qb5 (Ra8)  -0.64/13  55
>>>49.f5  -0.03/13  42  exf5  -0.67/13  1:29  50.Nh4  0.03/13  1:47  Rc4  -0.63/12
>>>59  51.Qa7 (Qd3)  -0.09/12  54  51...f4  -0.56/12  1:59  52.gxf4  0.00/12  1:13
>>>Rxf4  -0.78/11  23  53.Rd4  0.00/13  1:20  Rxd4  -0.27/11  1:04  54.Bxd4
>>>0.00/12  10  Ba6 (Nc5)  0.12/12  3:37  55.Qa8  0.22/13  42  Qe2  0.11/11  18
>>>56.Nf3 (Kg3)  0.09/13  52  56...Bd3 (Bc4)  1.03/12  1:30  57.Qxd5  0.75/14  1:20
>>> Bc4 (Be4)  0.84/12  2:13  58.Qa8 (Qb7)  0.84/14  2:00  58...Bb5  0.85/12  48
>>>59.Qc8 (Qb7)  0.75/13  1:22  59...Ba6 (Qe4)  0.85/12  31  60.Qc6 (Qd7)  0.78/13
>>>47  60...Bb5  0.85/13  1:29  61.Qc1 (Qb7)  0.69/14  1:58  61...Qe4  0.84/11  46
>>>62.Kg3  0.63/12  49  Qb7 (Qd5)  1.05/11  1:59  63.Qc2 (Bf1)  0.84/12  45
>>>63...Qa6  1.20/12  1:09  64.Bh3 (Qc7)  1.47/12  37  64...Qb7 (Bxa3)  2.05/10  55
>>> 65.Qc8  1.69/12  38  Qxc8 (Nc5)  2.07/12  1:14  66.Bxc8  1.88/14  13  Nc5
>>>(Bxa3)  1.52/13  45  67.Be3  1.78/14  1:52  Bc4 (Ba6)  1.64/13  39  68.Nd4
>>>2.00/14  2:40  g6 (Bd3)  1.75/13  1:21  69.Nc6  2.19/13  54  Bd5 (Ba6)  1.79/12
>>>1:14  70.Nb4  2.34/14  1:04  Be4  1.97/13  30  71.Bg4  2.34/13  42  Bb7 (Ba8)
>>>1.76/12  31  72.hxg6  2.69/13  26  fxg6  2.16/13  26  73.Be2  2.78/14  48  Kf7
>>>2.41/12  47  74.a6  3.44/14  57  Ba8  2.96/13  33  75.Bxc5  3.44/13  15  Bxc5
>>>3.32/16  5  76.Bf3  3.50/15  12  Bxf3  4.13/19  47  77.Kxf3  3.72/16  8  Ke6
>>>4.13/18  48  78.Ke4  3.63/16  20  h5  4.02/17  12  79.Nd3 (Nc6)  3.94/17  33
>>>79...Ba7  4.24/17  23  80.Nf4+  4.03/17  25  Kd7  4.25/17  20  81.Nxg6  4.31/17
>>>26  Kc7  4.64/18  1:14  82.e6 (Kd5)  5.00/18  44  82...Bc5  4.69/14  52  83.e7
>>>4.84/18  1:05  Bxe7  5.29/19  1:10  84.Nxe7  5.03/19  15  Kb6  5.97/22  1:13
>>>85.Nd5+  5.31/22  53  Kxa6  6.23/24  56  86.Kf4  5.13/23  1:13  Kb5  6.15/26  47
>>> 87.Nc3+  5.16/23  1:08  Kc4  6.15/26  1:31  88.a4  5.53/23  47  Kc5 (Kb4)
>>>6.51/22  1:08  89.Kg5  5.34/23  54  Kb6  6.53/26  31  90.Kxh5  6.19/25  38  Ka6
>>>7.17/25  51  91.Kg5  7.97/27  32  Kb7 16.00/29  5:13  1-0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Shredder 6 (2715) - Fritz 7 (2710) [E19]
>>>Athlon 1.2 Ghz, 40'/40+40'/40+40' My Place (4), 06.03.2002
>>>
>>>W=12.8 ply; 333kN/s
>>>B=14.2 ply; 693kN/s
>>> 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Bb7 5.Bg2 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.Nc3 Ne4 8.Qc2 Nxc3
>>>9.Qxc3 c5 10.Rd1 d6 11.b3 Nd7 12.Bb2 Bf6 13.Qc2 Qc7 14.e4 cxd4 15.Nxd4 a6 16.Rd2
>>>Rac8 17.Qd1 Rfe8 18.h4 Both last book move 18...Nc5  -0.19/13  1:41  19.Qg4
>>>-0.39/10  35  h5 (Qe7)  -0.22/13  1:39  20.Qxh5  -0.48/13  2:08  Nxe4 (Bxe4)
>>>-0.25/13  1:44  21.Re2  -0.30/12  1:37  Nc5 (d5)  -0.22/13  1:34  22.Rd1
>>>-0.21/10  20  Bxg2  -0.22/13  1:56  23.Kxg2  -0.24/12  58  Red8 (Qb7+)  -0.28/13
>>> 1:51  24.Qg4  -0.13/13  2:34  Qb7+ (Nd7)  -0.22/13  1:40  25.f3 (Kg1)  0.00/12
>>>54  25...Nd7 (Qe7)  -0.22/13  1:24  26.Nxe6 (Red2)  0.57/13  2:40  26...fxe6
>>>0.00/14  1:49  27.Qxe6+  0.31/13  2:15  Kh8  0.00/14  1:55  28.Rd5 (Rxd6)
>>>0.31/13  3:30  28...Be5 (Ne5)  0.00/13  1:31  29.Rxd6  0.99/13  1:51  Bxb2
>>>0.09/14  1:32  30.Rxb2  0.86/13  1:42  Nc5 (Nf8)  -0.06/15  2:00  31.Rxb6
>>>1.53/11  8  Qc7  -0.34/16  3:06  32.Qg6  1.51/11  16  Qe5 (Nd3)  -0.41/14  1:09
>>>33.Rf2  0.02/11  2:53  Rd1  -0.28/13  1:29  34.Kh3  0.01/10  1:42  Qe3  -0.31/12
>>> 1:35  35.Rc6 (Rf1)  0.01/11  2:04  35...Rxc6  -0.34/14  2:55  36.Qxc6  0.01/13
>>>3:28  Rd8 (Qxf2)  -0.47/13  1:30  37.Qb6  0.40/12  3:28  Rd4  -0.31/14  2:06
>>>38.Qc6  0.01/13  1:11  Kh7 (Qxf2)  -0.28/13  1:05  39.h5  0.00/13  1:05  Qg5
>>>(Qe1)  -0.41/13  1:16  40.Qe8  -0.01/13  59  Rd8 (Nd3)  -0.31/15  1:13  41.Qc6
>>>(Qg6+)  -0.01/13  3:34  41...Qxh5+  -1.63/13  39  42.Kg2  0.00/7  0  Rd4 (Rd1)
>>>-1.78/14  1:24  43.Re2  -1.06/12  2:45  Ne4 (Nd3)  -1.94/14  1:03  44.Qe6
>>>(Qxe4+)  -1.57/12  3:41  44...Ng5  -2.69/15  1:36  45.Qf5+  -1.75/11  1:49  Kh6
>>>-2.69/14  25  46.Re6+ (b4)  -1.99/11  1:43  46...Nxe6  -3.22/15  23  47.Qxe6+
>>>-2.42/13  1:12  Kh7  -3.41/15  48  48.Qe1 (Qe3)  -2.42/12  1:17  48...Qh6
>>>-4.09/14  1:33  49.f4  -3.03/12  1:22  Qc6+ (Rd3)  -8.06/13  1:39  50.Kf2
>>>-3.49/12  3:47  Rd3  -8.28/13  28  51.Qe2  -7.31/11  5:06  Qg6  -9.03/12  12
>>>52.g4  -8.98/11  1:23  Qb6+  -10.59/12  13  53.Kg2  -9.83/12  1:26  Qd4
>>>-11.56/13  27  54.g5 -9.95/11  42  0-1



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