Author: Slater Wold
Date: 21:36:23 03/06/02
Ok, let's take a look:
[D]2b1qrk1/5p1p/pBn3p1/1p2p3/4P2N/bBP1Q3/P4PPP/3R2K1 w - -
Best move? It's supposed to be Nxg6. But is it?
After 598 minutes, Crafty thought this line was best:
1. Nf3 Bg4 2. Bd5 Nb8 3. c4 Qe7 4. cxb5 axb5 5. h3 Bxf3 6. Qxf3 Bc5 7. Bxc5 Qxc5
8. Rb1 b4 9. Qe3 Qxe3 10. fxe3 Kg7 11. Rxb4 Rd8
Giving it a score of 0.93 and searching somewhere around 55B+ nodes.
So I set this position up, and I played Nxg6. Crafty spit this out:
White(1): nxg6
time used: 15.99
clearing hash tables
time surplus 0.00 time limit 3:00 (3:00) [easy move]
nss depth time score variation (1)
starting thread 1
7 0.11 -2.54 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qg5 Be6 4.
Bc7 Be7
7-> 0.12 -2.54 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qg5 Be6 4.
Bc7 Be7
8 0.25 -2.57 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qh6 Be6 4.
Be3 Qd7 5. Bg5
8-> 0.26 -2.57 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qh6 Be6 4.
Be3 Qd7 5. Bg5
9 1.00 -2.45 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Bb4 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Qe2 Ne7 5. Bc7 Bc3 6. Qf3
9-> 1.04 -2.45 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Bb4 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Qe2 Ne7 5. Bc7 Bc3 6. Qf3
10 1.96 -2.50 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Qe7 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Bd5 Nb8 5. Qf3 Be6 6. Rd3 Bb4
10-> 2.03 -2.50 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Qe7 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Bd5 Nb8 5. Qf3 Be6 6. Rd3 Bb4
11 10.00 -- 1. ... hxg6
11 19.71 0.00 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 Ne7 4.
Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7 6. Qh7+ Kf6 7.
Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6 9. Rf3+
11-> 19.92 0.00 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 Ne7 4.
Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7 6. Qh7+ Kf6 7.
Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6 9. Rf3+
12 25.53 0.31 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Qh5+ Kg7 5. Rd3 Ne7 6. Qxe5+ f6
7. Qg3+ Qg6 8. Qf4 Bg4 9. Bd4
12-> 26.00 0.31 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Qh5+ Kg7 5. Rd3 Ne7 6. Qxe5+ f6
7. Qg3+ Qg6 8. Qf4 Bg4 9. Bd4
13 32.86 0.37 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Qh5+ Kg7 5. Rd3 Ne7 6. Rd8 Qxd8
7. Bxd8 Rxd8 8. Qxf7+ Kh6 9. Qf6+ Kh5
10. Qxe5+
13-> 33.89 0.37 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Qh5+ Kg7 5. Rd3 Ne7 6. Rd8 Qxd8
7. Bxd8 Rxd8 8. Qxf7+ Kh6 9. Qf6+ Kh5
10. Qxe5+
14 52.23 -- 1. ... hxg6
14 1:24 0.92 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke6 7.
axb3 Rf6 8. Rg3 Qf7
14-> 1:27 0.92 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke6 7.
axb3 Rf6 8. Rg3 Qf7
15 1:42 ++ 1. ... hxg6!!
time=3:00 cpu=209% mat=1 n=291725020 fh=93% nps=1617k
ext-> chk=12783975 cap=712366 pp=55686 1rep=1880629 mate=119640
predicted=0 nodes=291725020 evals=62094071
endgame tablebase-> probes done=0 successful=0
hashing-> trans/ref=31% pawn=99% used=99%
SMP-> split=1178 stop=164 data=9/32 cpu=6:18 elap=3:00
Crafty thought this was even an "easy move".
Ok, so how about 10 minutes. Maybe it'll resolve that fail high:
White(1): nxg6
time used: 27.28
clearing hash tables
time surplus 0.00 time limit 10:00 (10:00) [easy move]
nss depth time score variation (1)
starting thread 1
7 0.11 -2.54 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qg5 Be6 4.
Bc7 Be7
7-> 0.13 -2.54 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qg5 Be6 4.
Bc7 Be7
8 0.24 -2.57 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qh6 Be6 4.
Be3 Qd7 5. Bg5
8-> 0.27 -2.57 1. ... hxg6 2. Bd5 Bg4 3. Qh6 Be6 4.
Be3 Qd7 5. Bg5
9 1.00 -2.45 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Bb4 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Qe2 Ne7 5. Bc7 Bc3 6. Qf3
9-> 1.03 -2.45 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Bb4 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Qe2 Ne7 5. Bc7 Bc3 6. Qf3
10 2.03 -2.48 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Qe7 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Bd5 Bb7 5. Rb1 Bb4 6. Qd3 Rc8 7.
Qxb5
10-> 2.09 -2.48 1. ... hxg6 2. c4 Qe7 3. cxb5 axb5
4. Bd5 Bb7 5. Rb1 Bb4 6. Qd3 Rc8 7.
Qxb5
11 9.58 -- 1. ... hxg6
11 13.30 0.00 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 Bb2 4.
Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7 6. Qh7+ Kf6 7.
Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6 9. Rf3+
11-> 13.49 0.00 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 Bb2 4.
Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7 6. Qh7+ Kf6 7.
Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6 9. Rf3+
12 18.42 -- 1. ... hxg6
12 22.20 0.53 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Be3 Rh8 5. Qh6+ Kg8 6. Qg6+ Kf8
7. Bh6+ Rxh6 8. Qxh6+ Kg8 9. Qg5+ Kh8
10. Qh4+ Kg7 11. Qg3+ Kh7 12. Bd5
12-> 22.72 0.53 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Be3 Rh8 5. Qh6+ Kg8 6. Qg6+ Kf8
7. Bh6+ Rxh6 8. Qxh6+ Kg8 9. Qg5+ Kh8
10. Qh4+ Kg7 11. Qg3+ Kh7 12. Bd5
13 24.78 ++ 1. ... hxg6!!
13-> 44.05 0.14 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 g5 3. Qxg5+ Kh7
4. Be3 Rh8 5. Qh6+ Kg8 6. Qg6+ Kf8
7. Bh6+ Rxh6 8. Qxh6+ Kg8 9. Qg5+ Kh8
10. Qh4+ Kg7 11. Qg3+ Kh7 12. Bd5
14 52.19 -- 1. ... hxg6
14 1:18 0.92 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke6 7.
axb3 Rf6 8. Rg3 Qf7
14-> 1:22 0.92 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke6 7.
axb3 Rf6 8. Rg3 Qf7
15 1:37 ++ 1. ... hxg6!!
15-> 2:57 0.53 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke6 7.
axb3 Rf6 8. Rg3 Qf7
16 4:01 0.59 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke7 7.
axb3 Qd7 8. Qh5 Qd5 9. Qh7+ Ke8 10.
Qc7
16-> 4:13 0.59 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6. fxg6+ Ke7 7.
axb3 Qd7 8. Qh5 Qd5 9. Qh7+ Ke8 10.
Qc7
17 7:37 0.51 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6. Qh4+ Kg7 7.
Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9. Qh6+ Kf7 10.
fxg6+ Ke7 11. Rg3 Qxa2 12. Qh4+ Ke8
13. Qe4
17-> 8:02 0.51 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4.
Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6. Qh4+ Kg7 7.
Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9. Qh6+ Kf7 10.
fxg6+ Ke7 11. Rg3 Qxa2 12. Qh4+ Ke8
13. Qe4
time=10:00 cpu=204% mat=1 n=973185402 fh=93% nps=1621k
ext-> chk=56156310 cap=2563819 pp=421411 1rep=5808398 mate=423139
predicted=0 nodes=973185402 evals=162705326
endgame tablebase-> probes done=0 successful=0
hashing-> trans/ref=27% pawn=99% used=99%
SMP-> split=2375 stop=358 data=10/32 cpu=20:28 elap=10:00
Notice the difference between Rebel's eval, and Crafty's:
Rebel: hxg6 Qh6 Be6 Rd3 Bc1 Qxc1 Bxb3
Crafty: 1. ... hxg6 2. Qh6 Be6 3. Rd3 f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6. Qh4+ Kg7 7.
Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9. Qh6+ Kf7 10. fxg6+ Ke7 11. Rg3 Qxa2 12. Qh4+ Ke8 13.
Qe4
Bc1 vs f5
Other engines also *think* f5 is better. Monsoon & GT 2.0 are among them.
(Rebel is the only I've seen give Bc1 in its eval.)
Crafty after hxg6 Qh6 Be6 Rd3:
White(3): rd3
time used: 33.85
time surplus 0.00 time limit 10:00 (10:00)
nss depth time score variation (1)
6 0.06 -- 3. ... Qe7
6 0.10 1.68 3. ... Qe7 4. Bxe6 Qxe6 5. Rh3 Qxh3
6. Qxh3 Kg7
6 0.13 0.00 3. ... Bb2 4. Rh3 Bxh3 5. Qxg6+ Kh8
6. Qh6+ Kg8 7. Qg6+
6 0.25 -1.13 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Kg5 8. Be3+ Rf4
(4) 6-> 0.25 -1.13 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Kg5 8. Be3+ Rf4
7 0.27 -- 3. ... Ne7
(3) 7 0.30 0.00 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6
9. Rf3+
(4) 7-> 0.44 0.00 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6
9. Rf3+
(3) 8 0.49 0.00 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6
9. Rf3+
(4) 8-> 0.74 0.00 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Kg5 8. Rg3+ Kf6
9. Rf3+
9 0.77 -- 3. ... Ne7
(3) 9 0.88 1.32 3. ... Ne7 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Kf7
6. Qh7+ Kf6 7. Rf3+ Nf5 8. exf5 exf5
9. h3 Rh8
9 3.02 1.18 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6.
fxg6+ Ke7 7. axb3 Qb8 8. Qe3
9 4.38 1.07 3. ... Nb8 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Qd7
6. Qxg6+ Qg7 7. Qxe6+ Qf7 8. Qxe5 Qf6
9. Rg3+ Kf7 10. Qd5+ Qe6
(3) 9-> 4.38 1.07 3. ... Nb8 4. Bxe6 fxe6 5. Rh3 Qd7
6. Qxg6+ Qg7 7. Qxe6+ Qf7 8. Qxe5 Qf6
9. Rg3+ Kf7 10. Qd5+ Qe6
10 4.44 -- 3. ... Nb8
(2) 10 4.72 2.10 3. ... Nb8 4. Bxe6 Qxe6 5. Rh3 Qxh3
6. Qxh3 Bc1 7. Bc7 Nc6 8. Qd7 Nb8 9.
Qg4
10 7.70 ++ 3. ... f5!!
10-> 23.05 0.68 3. ... f57
11 31.42 ++ 3. ... f5!!
11-> 54.69 0.29 3. ... f57
12 1:14 0.57 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6.
fxg6+ Ke7 7. axb3 Qd7 8. Qh7+ Ke6 9.
Qh5 Qg7 10. Rd3
12-> 1:22 0.57 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. exf5 Bxb3 6.
fxg6+ Ke7 7. axb3 Qd7 8. Qh7+ Ke6 9.
Qh5 Qg7 10. Rd3
13 2:02 0.51 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6.
Qh4+ Kg7 7. Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9.
Qh6+ Kf7 10. fxg6+ Ke7 11. Rg3 Qxa2
12. Qh4+ Ke8 13. Qe4
13-> 2:23 0.51 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6.
Qh4+ Kg7 7. Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9.
Qh6+ Kf7 10. fxg6+ Ke7 11. Rg3 Qxa2
12. Qh4+ Ke8 13. Qe4
14 8:10 0.80 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6.
Qh4+ Kg7 7. Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9.
Qh6+ Kf7 10. fxg6+ Ke7 11. Qg5+ Ke6
12. Qg4+ Ke7 13. Rd3 Rf6 14. Rd7+ Kf8
14-> 9:28 0.80 3. ... f5 4. Rh3 Kf7 5. Qh7+ Kf6 6.
Qh4+ Kg7 7. Bxe6 Qxe6 8. exf5 Qg8 9.
Qh6+ Kf7 10. fxg6+ Ke7 11. Qg5+ Ke6
12. Qg4+ Ke7 13. Rd3 Rf6 14. Rd7+ Kf8
time=10:00 cpu=199% mat=-2 n=951540628 fh=93% nps=1584k
ext-> chk=66878696 cap=2555815 pp=554466 1rep=5478898 mate=352172
predicted=0 nodes=951540628 evals=156655872
endgame tablebase-> probes done=0 successful=0
hashing-> trans/ref=23% pawn=99% used=99%
SMP-> split=2073 stop=315 data=11/32 cpu=19:59 elap=10:00
Ok, so what about Bc1. Is it a mistake?
After hxg6 Qh6 Be6 Rd3 Bc1:
Black(3): Bc1
time used: 1:19
crafty is behind 2.0 on time, reducing by 1/6.
time surplus 0.00 time limit 10:00 (10:00)
nss depth time score variation (1)
7-> 0.09 1.45 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qh4
7. Qf3 Qf4
8 0.16 1.55 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qh4
7. f3 Rb8 8. Bc5
8-> 0.19 1.55 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qh4
7. f3 Rb8 8. Bc5
9 0.59 1.59 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe6 6. Qd1 Rb8
7. Bc7 Rc8 8. Rd7 Qf6
9-> 0.63 1.59 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe6 6. Qd1 Rb8
7. Bc7 Rc8 8. Rd7 Qf6
10 1.30 1.68 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qg5
7. Rd6 Rc8 8. Be3 Qh5 9. Qd5
10-> 1.39 1.68 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qg5
7. Rd6 Rc8 8. Be3 Qh5 9. Qd5
11 3.00 1.63 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. c4 Rc8
7. c5 Nd4 8. Qh6 Rxc5 9. Bxc5 Qxc5
11-> 3.25 1.63 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. c4 Rc8
7. c5 Nd4 8. Qh6 Rxc5 9. Bxc5 Qxc5
12 10.34 1.72 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qg5
7. b4 Qf4 8. f3 Nb8 9. Be3 Qf6 10.
Rd5
12-> 10.97 1.72 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qg5
7. b4 Qf4 8. f3 Nb8 9. Be3 Qf6 10.
Rd5
13 22.56 1.70 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qg5
7. b4 Rb8 8. Bc7 Rc8 9. Rd7 Qf4 10.
Qc2 f6
13-> 23.42 1.70 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. Qd1 Qg5
7. b4 Rb8 8. Bc7 Rc8 9. Rd7 Qf4 10.
Qc2 f6
14 56.59 1.75 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. b4 Qe6
7. Qd2 Qb3 8. f3 Qb1+ 9. Qd1 Qxd1+
10. Rxd1 Kg7 11. Kf2 f6 12. Rd7+ Rf7
13. Rxf7+ Kxf7
14-> 57.98 1.75 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. b4 Qe6
7. Qd2 Qb3 8. f3 Qb1+ 9. Qd1 Qxd1+
10. Rxd1 Kg7 11. Kf2 f6 12. Rd7+ Rf7
13. Rxf7+ Kxf7
15 2:04 1.76 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. b4 Rb8
7. Bc5 Qh4 8. Rd6 Rc8 9. f3 Kg7 10.
Qd2 Rc7 11. Rd5 Qf4
15-> 2:07 1.76 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe7 6. b4 Rb8
7. Bc5 Qh4 8. Rd6 Rc8 9. f3 Kg7 10.
Qd2 Rc7 11. Rd5 Qf4
16 8:13 1.84 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe6 6. Qd1 Rb8
7. Rd6 Qe8 8. Bc5 Rd8 9. Rd5 Kg7 10.
b4 f6 11. Bd6 Ne7 12. Rd3
16-> 8:29 1.84 4. Qxc1 Bxb3 5. axb3 Qe6 6. Qd1 Rb8
7. Rd6 Qe8 8. Bc5 Rd8 9. Rd5 Kg7 10.
b4 f6 11. Bd6 Ne7 12. Rd3
time=10:00 cpu=199% mat=-2 n=986065611 fh=91% nps=1642k
ext-> chk=36422012 cap=2570000 pp=278103 1rep=4776065 mate=419377
predicted=0 nodes=986065611 evals=236334977
endgame tablebase-> probes done=0 successful=0
hashing-> trans/ref=22% pawn=99% used=99%
SMP-> split=981 stop=196 data=8/32 cpu=20:00 elap=10:00
_That_ is why Crafty will never play Nxg6.
Ed, could you please give a 10 minute analysis of this position after nxg6 hxg6
Qh6 Be6 Rd3 f5? I know GT still think it's better after f5 (1.xx or something)
and Monsoon thinks it's still better (0.67). What does Rebel think?
I will also let Crafty look at this line overnite, and I bet it drops to at
least 1.00 for white. (Which I think shows, in the long run, Nxg6 is winning.
If indeed f5 leads to +1.00 for white.)
The line to look at is:
[D]4qrk1/5p2/pBn1b1pQ/1p2p3/4P3/bBPR4/P4PPP/6K1 b - - 0 3
Which is better? f5 or Bc1? Do either save the position?
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