Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 08:52:56 03/14/02
Go up one level in this thread
On March 13, 2002 at 07:26:08, Chris Carson wrote:
Chess is a matter of the weakest chain.
You can analyze the deepblue-kasparov games and even with
not a too high rating it is not so hard using analysis from
for example Seirawan that
a) Kasparov played openings he knows nothing from
b) Kasparov blundered away material for vague compensation
c) Kasparov played very bad games in general. Like 6 simple
errors a game. Kasparov especially makes errors in positions
where making a good move would chancelessly win from Deep Blue.
Plenty of examples here. Against top GMS kasparov makes no bad
moves or perhaps 1 a game which is 'dubious'. Sure no 2200 level
mistakes which he made on average 5 from against deep blue each
game.
The weak points from Deep Blue are obvious
a) book. its tournament book was 4000 moves only. Given in by
hand by a GM. After that an automatic book. From world
computer championships we know how CHANCELESS such books
are against nowadays programs with huge hand made books.
b) Search depth from deep blue was 11-12 ply, not a single program
nowadays is getting such small depths at 40 in 2 level at the
latest hardware
c) many Deep Blue chips were pressed just 2 weeks before the match.
Also they mixed different chips, just to get more NPS. Search
depth was not the issue. It didn't even have killermoves in
hardware search.
A not very well tested program is chanceless. Hardware OR software.
Deep Blue 1997 if it would play with book from then against modern program
would get crushed *completely*.
Not a simple loss it will be. It will be complete annihilation.
Please compare next. Nimzo98 in 1998 was very strong. Nowadays programs
completely annihilate it too.
>On March 13, 2002 at 04:09:54, Jerry Doby wrote:
>
>>It's hard to believe that anything can be that much strongeer then fritz7 on a
>>fast platform. Is deepblue 100 elo or above deepfritz on an xp 2000
>
>OK, I will bite and get a debate going most likely. First take a look at:
>http://home.interact.se/~w100107/manmachine.htm
>
>Tony's page has the results for both Top programs today and Deep Blue.
>
>Here is a brief comparison:
>
>Deep Blue 97 2862 6 games
>Chess Tiger 2788 11 games
>Deep Junior 2702 9 games
>Rebel Cen 2697 4 games
>Deep Fritz 2678 12 games
>
>None of the Commercial programs are on fastest HW today. Deep Blue only played
>6 games against one opponent that did not get to prepare (Rebel opponent played
>100 games against Rebel before the match). My guess is that Deep Blue rating
>would drop by 100 to 200 points if put to a serious test. The Commercial
>programs would be 100 points stronger on fastest HW. So they are about the same
>or slight favorite to the commercials. I think Rebel, Tiger on fastest single
>processors and Deep F/J on fastest mps would beat DB 97 in a match.
>
>My conclusion is that 5 years after the match, the commercial programs rule. I
>think that the gap was closed a couple of years ago.
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