Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:06:56 03/17/02
Go up one level in this thread
On March 17, 2002 at 06:12:19, Slater Wold wrote: >On March 17, 2002 at 05:45:33, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On March 17, 2002 at 02:25:25, Slater Wold wrote: >> >>>This position came up on an ICC game: >>> >>>[D]r1b2rk1/pp1n1ppp/4pB2/2R1P3/8/3B4/q4PPP/3Q1RK1 b - - 0 17 >>> >>>This is from my log: >>> >>>White(17): Bf6 >>> time used: 31.43 >>> time limit 14.74 (1:39) >>> nss depth time score variation (1) >>> 7 0.21 ++ 17. ... Re8!! >>> 7 0.35 -0.87 17. ... Re8 18. Qg4 g6 19. Bb5 Nxc5 >>> 20. Bxe8 Bd7 21. Bxd7 Nxd7 >>> 7 0.72 ++ 17. ... gxf6!! >>> 7 1.33 -3.42 17. ... Qa3 18. Qg4 g6 19. Rxc8 Rfxc8 >>> 20. Be4 Nxf6 21. exf6 Qb3 >>> (4) 7-> 1.39 -3.42 17. ... Qa3 18. Qg4 g6 19. Rxc8 Rfxc8 >>> 20. Be4 Nxf6 21. exf6 Qb3 >>> 8 1.66 -- 17. ... Qa3 >>> (3) 8 2.00 0.00 17. ... Qa3 18. Bxh7+ Kxh7 19. Qh5+ >>> Kg8 20. Bxg7 Kxg7 21. Qg5+ Kh7 22. >>> Qh5+ Kg7 >>> 8 2.64 ++ 17. ... Re8!! >>> 8 4.02 -0.93 17. ... Re8 18. Qh5 h6 19. Qg4 g6 20. >>> Rc7 Qd5 21. Qg3 Nxf6 22. exf6 >>> 8-> 5.61 -0.93 17. ... Re8 18. Qh5 h6 19. Qg4 g6 20. >>> Rc7 Qd5 21. Qg3 Nxf6 22. exf6 >>> 9 6.35 -- 17. ... Re8 >>> 9 16.54 5.92 17. ... Re8 18. Bxh7+ Kh8 19. Qh5 Qe2 >>> 20. Qxf7 gxf6 21. Qxe8+ Kxh7 22. Rxc8 >>> Nxe5 23. Qg8+ Kh6 24. Rxa8 >>> 9 16.88 ++ 17. ... Qa3!! >>> time=17.11 cpu=196% mat=-2 n=24143380 fh=94% nps=1411k >>> ext-> chk=1598422 cap=47309 pp=18507 1rep=176270 mate=14056 >>>sing=10 >>> predicted=16 nodes=24143380 evals=2438674 >>> endgame tablebase-> probes done=0 successful=0 >>> hashing-> trans/ref=28% pawn=99% used=65% >>> SMP-> split=482 stop=108 data=8/32 cpu=33.65 elap=17.11 >>> >>>I don't think there is a worse move than Qa3. I cringed when I saw this move >>>played. >>> >>>Oh well, that's why I am playing there, to catch these little things. So I go >>>back to my engine, and feed it the position, and let it think for 60 seconds. >>> >>>Here is the eval: >>> >>>White(1): setboard r1b2rk1/pp1n1ppp/4pB2/2R1P3/8/3B4/q4PPP/3Q1RK1 b - - 0 17 >>>Black(1): go >>> clearing hash tables >>> time surplus 0.00 time limit 1:00 (1:00) >>> nss depth time score variation (1) >>>starting thread 1 >>> (2) 7-> 0.25 -7.16 1. ... Nxc5 2. Qg4 g6 3. Bc4 Qc2 4. >>> Rd1 Qf5 >>> 8 0.39 -- 1. ... Nxc5 >>> 8 0.73 Mat06 1. ... Nxc5 2. Bxh7+ Kxh7 3. Qh5+ Kg8 >>> 4. Qg4 g6 5. Qh4 Qxf2+ 6. Rxf2 Nd7 >>> 7. Qh8# >>> 8 1.11 ++ 1. ... gxf6!! >>> 8 2.86 0.00 1. ... gxf6 2. Bxh7+ Kxh7 3. Qh5+ Kg8 >>> 4. Qg4+ Kh7 5. Qh5+ >>> 8 3.16 ++ 1. ... Re8!! >>> 8 3.98 -0.85 1. ... Re8 2. Bb5 Nxc5 3. Qg4 g6 4. >>> Bxe8 Nd7 5. Bxd7 Bxd7 >>> (2) 8-> 6.33 -0.85 1. ... Re8 2. Bb5 Nxc5 3. Qg4 g6 4. >>> Bxe8 Nd7 5. Bxd7 Bxd7 >>> 9 7.63 -- 1. ... Re8 >>> 9 8.97 4.60 1. ... Re8 2. Bxh7+ Kxh7 3. Qh5+ Kg8 >>> 4. Qg5 Nxf6 5. exf6 Qxf2+ 6. Kxf2 g6 >>> 7. Rc7 Rd8 8. Re7 a5 >>> 9 10.55 ++ 1. ... gxf6!! >>> 9 16.50 1.16 1. ... gxf6 2. Bxh7+ Kh8 3. Qh5 Qe2 >>> 4. Qh6 Qd2 5. Qxd2 Nxc5 6. Qh6 >>> 9 19.80 ++ 1. ... Nxf6!! >>> 9 21.38 -0.38 1. ... Nxf6 2. exf6 Qb2 3. Bxh7+ Kxh7 >>> 4. Qh5+ Kg8 5. fxg7 Qxg7 6. Rg5 f6 >>> 7. Rxg7+ Kxg7 8. Rd1 a5 9. g3 >>> (4) 9-> 24.44 -0.38 1. ... Nxf6 2. exf6 Qb2 3. Bxh7+ Kxh7 >>> 4. Qh5+ Kg8 5. fxg7 Qxg7 6. Rg5 f6 >>> 7. Rxg7+ Kxg7 8. Rd1 a5 9. g3 >>> (3) 10 28.78 -0.37 1. ... Nxf6 2. exf6 Qb2 3. Bxh7+ Kxh7 >>> 4. Qh5+ Kg8 5. fxg7 Qxg7 6. Rg5 f6 >>> 7. Rxg7+ Kxg7 8. Rd1 a5 9. f4 a4 10. >>> Kf2 >>> 10-> 36.83 -0.37 1. ... Nxf6 2. exf6 Qb2 3. Bxh7+ Kxh7 >>> 4. Qh5+ Kg8 5. fxg7 Qxg7 6. Rg5 f6 >>> 7. Rxg7+ Kxg7 8. Rd1 a5 9. f4 a4 10. >>> Kf2 >>> 11 51.30 -0.22 1. ... Nxf6 2. exf6 Qb2 3. Bxh7+ Kxh7 >>> 4. Qh5+ Kg8 5. fxg7 Qxg7 6. Rg5 f6 >>> 7. Rxg7+ Kxg7 8. Qg4+ Kf7 9. Qh5+ Ke7 >>> 10. Qc5+ Ke8 11. Rd1 Kf7 12. f4 >>> time=1:00 cpu=234% mat=-2 n=82822082 fh=90% nps=1372k >>> ext-> chk=3645381 cap=287364 pp=75218 1rep=496025 mate=38058 sing= >>>25 >>> predicted=0 nodes=82822082 evals=16376870 >>> endgame tablebase-> probes done=0 successful=0 >>> hashing-> trans/ref=33% pawn=28% used=96% >>> SMP-> split=1927 stop=605 data=7/32 cpu=2:21 elap=1:00 >>> >>> >>>Never even evaluates it. Strange!! >>> >>>Same version, settings, everything. I know it *probably* has to do with hash >>>and other in-game conditions. (And yes, positional learning _IS_ disabled.) >>>But it's *very* hard to diagnose a problem that cannot be reproduced. :( >>> >>>Anything but Nxf6 here is just wrong. Most programs will evaluate Qa3 (and >>>other losers) but fail low quickly on them, and move on to Nxf6. >> >> >>Here is the output of my program >> >>33018 <first : 1 666 2 44 d7c5 >>33028 <first : 2 671 3 138 d7c5 f6e7 >>33028 <first : 2 671 3 199 d7c5 f6e7 >>33028 <first : 3 626 3 579 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 >>33038 <first : 3 626 4 1494 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 >>33048 <first : 4 626 5 3085 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 >>33058 <first : 4 626 6 4646 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 >>33078 <first : 5 626 8 9466 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 >>33148 <first : 5 626 15 22238 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 >>33218 <first : 6 611 22 35707 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 f8c5 >>33368 <first : 6 611 37 62603 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 f8c5 >>33809 <first : 7 616 81 149815 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 f8d6 a2b2 d6e5 b2e5 >>34290 <first : 7 616 129 245283 d7c5 f6e7 c5d3 e7f8 d3e5 f8d6 a2b2 d6e5 b2e5 >>36543 <first : 8 121 354 694264 d7c5 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 h5g4 g7g6 g4h3 a2f2 >>f1f2 c8d7 >>42111 <first : 8 122 911 1753136 d7f6 >>50593 <first : 8 166 1759 3279678 d7f6 e5f6 a2b2 f6g7 b2g7 f1e1 f7f5 c5c1 >>58775 <first : 8 167 2577 4827564 a2a3 >>64353 <first : 8 347 3135 5860162 a2a3 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3b5 d7f6 e5f6 >>65975 <first : 8 347 3297 6154050 a2a3 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3b5 d7f6 e5f6 >>112783 <first : 9 152 7978 14960897 a2a3 c5c4 d7f6 e5f6 g7f6 d3h7 g8h8 h7e4 e6e5 >>c4c1 >>137368 <first : 9 153 10437 19457049 d7f6 >>161863 <first : 9 172 12886 23656321 d7f6 e5f6 a2b2 d1h5 h7h6 f6g7 b2g7 h5e5 >>f7f6 >>182994 <first : 9 172 14999 27653765 d7f6 e5f6 a2b2 d1h5 h7h6 f6g7 b2g7 h5e5 >>f7f6 >>351766 <first : 10 -5 31876 57793508 d7f6 e5f6 a2b2 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 >>b2g7 c5g5 c8d7 g5g7 g8g7 >>571432 <first : 10 -4 53843 100132014 a2a3 >>830174 <first : 10 -4 79717 149055075 f8e8 >>985508 <first : 10 -4 95251 178841613 b7b6 >>1086783 <first : 10 21 105378 198269682 b7b6 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 f7f5 e5f6 >>e6e5 h5h8 g8f7 h8h5 f7e6 h5g4 e6f7 c5c8 f8c8 g4d7 >>1128243 <first : 10 21 109523 205910297 b7b6 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 f7f5 e5f6 >>e6e5 h5h8 g8f7 h8h5 f7e6 h5g4 e6f7 c5c8 f8c8 g4d7 >>1128243 <first : move b7b6 >> >>After almost 20 minutes on pIII800 it likes b6 >>It has wrong fail high on Qa3 and Re8 but these moves are never get played >> >>Unfortunately it does not know to extend an important line so it need depth 11 >>to see that b6 is losing and I did not give it enough time >> >> >> >>After Qa3 it needs some minutes to see a forced mate >> >>33348 <first : 1 -341 3 310 c5c8 a8c8 >>33348 <first : 2 -341 3 356 c5c8 a8c8 >>33348 <first : 2 -341 3 596 c5c8 a8c8 >>33348 <first : 3 -368 3 796 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 d7f6 e5f6 g7f6 e4b7 >>33368 <first : 3 -368 5 2942 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 d7f6 e5f6 g7f6 e4b7 >>33368 <first : 4 -368 5 3602 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 d7f6 e5f6 g7f6 e4b7 >>33408 <first : 4 -368 9 9234 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 d7f6 e5f6 g7f6 e4b7 >>33428 <first : 5 -368 11 12565 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 d7f6 e5f6 g7f6 e4b7 >>33748 <first : 5 -367 43 72839 d1g4 >>33788 <first : 5 -337 47 79064 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 >>33828 <first : 5 -337 51 87917 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 >>33899 <first : 6 -347 58 99869 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 a3b3 >>34780 <first : 6 -347 146 268433 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 a3b3 >>35341 <first : 7 -347 202 372102 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 a3b2 g4g5 >>39426 <first : 7 -347 610 1153936 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 a3b2 g4g5 >>40738 <first : 8 -352 742 1400916 d1g4 g7g6 c5c8 a8c8 d3e4 a3b2 g4g5 d7c5 >>42461 <first : 8 -351 914 1734603 d3h7 >>45575 <first : 8 -285 1225 2357658 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 g8g7 h5g5 g7h8 c5c4 >>d7f6 e5f6 >>64933 <first : 8 -285 3161 6125595 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 g8g7 h5g5 g7h8 c5c4 >>d7f6 e5f6 >>75158 <first : 9 0 4184 8070473 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 g8g7 h5g5 g7h8 g5h6 >>h8g8 h6g5 g8h7 g5h5 h7g8 h5g5 >>132100 <first : 9 0 9878 19259522 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 f6g7 g8g7 h5g5 g7h8 g5h6 >>h8g8 h6g5 g8h7 g5h5 h7g8 h5g5 >>170585 <first : 10 540 13726 26594531 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 h5g5 a3g3 f2g3 g7g6 >>c5c7 b7b6 g3g4 d7c5 >>274484 <first : 10 540 24116 47248083 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 h5g5 a3g3 f2g3 g7g6 >>c5c7 b7b6 g3g4 d7c5 >>348731 <first : 11 9987 31541 61190464 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 h5g5 d7f6 e5f6 a3g3 >>h2g3 g7g6 g5h6 f8e8 h6g7 >>386656 <first : 11 9987 35333 68946263 d3h7 g8h7 d1h5 h7g8 h5g5 d7f6 e5f6 a3g3 >>h2g3 g7g6 g5h6 f8e8 h6g7 >>386656 <first : move d3h7 >> >>Uri > > >After b6 is mate in 8. > >Bxh7+ Kh8 Qg4 gxf6 Qh4 Qxf2+ Rxf2 Kg7 exf6+ Nxf6 Rg5+ Kh8 Be4+ Nh5 Qxh5# I know The problem is that my program does no relevant extension in that position except the check extension so 10 plies are not enough to see: ply 1:b6 ply 2:Bxh7+ Kxh7 ply 3:Qh5+ Kg8 ply 4:Qg5 ply 5:g6 ply 6:Qh6 ply 7:Nxf6 ply 8:exf6 ply 9:Qxf2+ Rxf2 ply 10:bxc5 ply 11:Qg7# I know that there are extensions that may help For example threat mate in 1 extension may give for that line: ply 1:b6 ply 2:Bxh7+ Kxh7 ply 3:Qh5+ Kg8 ply 4:Qg5 g6 ply 5:Qh6 Nxf6 ply 6:exf6 Qxf2+ Rxf2 bxc5 ply 7:Qg7#. Uri
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