Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 19:49:17 03/17/02
Go up one level in this thread
On March 17, 2002 at 13:52:57, Marc van Hal wrote:
>On March 16, 2002 at 10:31:31, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On March 15, 2002 at 16:40:55, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On March 15, 2002 at 13:50:33, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 15, 2002 at 02:38:05, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On March 14, 2002 at 08:03:23, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On March 14, 2002 at 07:54:14, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've lost contact with all information, since I went away 4 months ago. I've now
>>>>>>>been back two weeks, but can't see anything concrete.
>>>>>>>Shredder 6.0, Fritz 7.0 look like they are quite compatible with the recent
>>>>>>>Tigers, but not better. Deep Fritz looks a little below the top now, but only
>>>>>>>slightly.
>>>>>>>When will there be something clear?!
>>>>>>>So Fritz, Shredder and Tigers are about equal top now?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What's in plan now? anything which might break away from the pack?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm sorry to ask these obvious questions, but I simply can't see what cokking at
>>>>>>>the momment. Results and reports which are posted I often can't understand.
>>>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think a lot of people are anxious to see the next Tiger, but
>>>>>>Christophe is refusing to give any expected arrival dates.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It'll be interesting to see how Fritz 7 does in the next SSDF
>>>>>>list. I would expect it to be a bit (say 20-30 elo) stronger
>>>>>>than the ChessTigers, but that could be totally off too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>GCP
>>>>>
>>>>>I suppose what we really want to see is Fritz 8.0, as Mr. Morsch was explaining,
>>>>>that Fritz 7.0 has much more knowledge, but speed got left behind, which he will
>>>>>correct in Fritz 8.0.
>>>>>So if Fritz 7.0 is even now the top of a comprehensive rating list like ssdf,
>>>>>then fritz 8.0 would REALY be the ideal program.
>>>>>Speed within the software itself sometimes seems to be more effective than
>>>>>merely multipliyng Mhz,Ghz, with the hardware, although I'm not familiar with
>>>>>all the technical workings of it. That's just my observation.
>>>>>If only this can be done right now!
>>>>>
>>>>>Christophe, can you just hint something about what's going on with your
>>>>>programs?
>>>>>I don't know if you have said anything during the last 4 months!
>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>>S.Taylor
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well I'm glad that you ask. Usually people just ask about the release date of
>>>>the program, without apparent interest for what will be in it.
>>>>
>>>>What's going on with Tiger since version 14.0 is that unlike the previous years
>>>>I have worked a lot of the EVALUATION of the program. I have tried to work on
>>>>evaluation holes (mising knowledge about positional features) and tried to fill
>>>>these holes with good chess knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>For example there is much more endgame evaluation in Tiger 15. Also better
>>>>evaluation of the bishop pair (it took approximately 2 months of extensive
>>>>research).
>>>>
>>>>I have worked on search algorithms less than the previous years because as I
>>>>said above I focused on the evaluation function. However Tiger15's search is
>>>>already better than Tiger14's. I'm getting a much better search depth in the
>>>>endgame for example, and many selection holes have been fixed. I also get better
>>>>results when mates combinations start to appear on the board.
>>>>
>>>>Overall I have the feeling that Chess Tiger 15 will not be much better than CT14
>>>>in fast games, but that the difference will be clearly seen at long time
>>>>controls because of better stability (reliability) of the evaluation and less
>>>>selection holes.
>>>
>>>I do not understand
>>>I remember that you say that fixing the evaluation is more important for palm
>>>tiger because the difference is bigger when you cannot search deep enough so
>>>I thought that there is going to be bigger improvement in blitz based on your
>>>posts.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>
>>There are different categories of knowledge.
>>
>>It looks like when you are really lacking depth (Palm version, searching 5-6
>>plies in blitz but only 3-4 on some moves) you have to add knowledge aimed at
>>avoiding tactical traps (better evaluation of pins for example) because you
>>can't even see them by search. I would call this "tactical knowledge".
>>
>>Then there is a stage when your search depth starts to be enough to avoid most
>>tactics (say 10 plies and up). At that point what you need the most is long term
>>positional knowledge. The kind of knowledge to tell you that you are going into
>>a won or lost endgame for example, or that this weakness is going to hurt you
>>until the end of the game.
>>
>>In the new Tiger I have been working more on long term positional knowledge.
>>
>>In blitz games tactical abilities are more important. In long games, long term
>>positional knowledge plays a bigger role, and that's why I expect the gains to
>>be more obvious at long time controls.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>Hi Christophe what you say looks very very intresting.
>But some how I have doubts that
>it will have long term positional knowledge.
>But believe me I realy hope you indeed did it.
>Regards Marc
It will have more than the previous version. I do not guarantee perfection, just
an improvement. :)
Christophe
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