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Subject: Re: NO!

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 15:14:02 03/20/02

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On March 20, 2002 at 17:29:08, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 20, 2002 at 16:57:54, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On March 20, 2002 at 16:21:53, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On March 20, 2002 at 16:07:11, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Even three or four days still will not play to perfection.
>>>>>>Just look at the numbers 40 to the 30 power will still not give perfection and
>>>>>>might take years to complete one move.
>>>>>>But we are working on it.
>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not a proof that perfection is impossible.
>>>>>
>>>>>better searching rules(better pruning and extensions) together with better
>>>>>evaluation may convince programs to find always the best move.
>>>>>
>>>>>You do not need to search everything to the end of the game in order to do it
>>>>>and the question how many plies you need to search is dependent on the
>>>>>evaluation and on the extensions and the pruning rules.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>Hmm, I think you need to search pretty deeply to find which is best of 1.d4 and
>>>>1.e4 :)
>>>>And you prove nothing with pruning rules and nullmove, only way to be _really
>>>>sure_ is to do a fullwidth search :(
>>>>
>>>>-S.
>>>
>>>The point is that you do not need to prove that you play perfect game
>>>in order to play perfect game and I guess that both 1.e4 and 1.d4
>>>lead to draw.
>>
>>Sure all you need to play perfect is luck, but how will you _know_ that you play
>>the perfect game, you can't even tell which is better of e4 and d4? :)
>>
>>-S.
>
>I cannot know but if I see that I never lose games I am going to start to
>suspect that I play perfect.
>
>It is not a proof but if I lose games when I do not always win with one of the
>colors then it is a proof that I do not play perfect.
>
>Uri

Well unless you're playing perfect opponent, then you might win (almost) every
game without perfect play.

I think this is the problem we face today with Kasparov, how close is he to
perfect play.  We can't really say since there is nothing above him to make a
reference to.
Suppose the engine you build is 3500, it will win almost all games with just a
seldom draw now and then, but if perfect play is 4000 there is still a long way
to go, you'll just never realize it.
Anything that is 500 elo stronger than the opponents will appear almost perfect
IMO.

-S.



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