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Subject: Re: NO!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 15:35:07 03/20/02

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On March 20, 2002 at 18:14:02, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On March 20, 2002 at 17:29:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On March 20, 2002 at 16:57:54, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>
>>>On March 20, 2002 at 16:21:53, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 20, 2002 at 16:07:11, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Even three or four days still will not play to perfection.
>>>>>>>Just look at the numbers 40 to the 30 power will still not give perfection and
>>>>>>>might take years to complete one move.
>>>>>>>But we are working on it.
>>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is not a proof that perfection is impossible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>better searching rules(better pruning and extensions) together with better
>>>>>>evaluation may convince programs to find always the best move.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You do not need to search everything to the end of the game in order to do it
>>>>>>and the question how many plies you need to search is dependent on the
>>>>>>evaluation and on the extensions and the pruning rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmm, I think you need to search pretty deeply to find which is best of 1.d4 and
>>>>>1.e4 :)
>>>>>And you prove nothing with pruning rules and nullmove, only way to be _really
>>>>>sure_ is to do a fullwidth search :(
>>>>>
>>>>>-S.
>>>>
>>>>The point is that you do not need to prove that you play perfect game
>>>>in order to play perfect game and I guess that both 1.e4 and 1.d4
>>>>lead to draw.
>>>
>>>Sure all you need to play perfect is luck, but how will you _know_ that you play
>>>the perfect game, you can't even tell which is better of e4 and d4? :)
>>>
>>>-S.
>>
>>I cannot know but if I see that I never lose games I am going to start to
>>suspect that I play perfect.
>>
>>It is not a proof but if I lose games when I do not always win with one of the
>>colors then it is a proof that I do not play perfect.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Well unless you're playing perfect opponent, then you might win (almost) every
>game without perfect play.
>
>I think this is the problem we face today with Kasparov, how close is he to
>perfect play.  We can't really say since there is nothing above him to make a
>reference to.
>Suppose the engine you build is 3500, it will win almost all games with just a
>seldom draw now and then, but if perfect play is 4000 there is still a long way
>to go, you'll just never realize it.
>Anything that is 500 elo stronger than the opponents will appear almost perfect
>IMO.
>
>-S.

If I see that the results of it against itslef is always the same and more time
does not help then I am going to suspect that it plays perfect.

Today things like this do not happen.

Uri



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