Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Look at this !!(??) move by Crafty 18.14!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:10:37 03/29/02

Go up one level in this thread


On March 29, 2002 at 03:38:12, Uri Blass wrote:

>On March 28, 2002 at 22:02:09, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On March 27, 2002 at 11:44:46, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On March 27, 2002 at 09:59:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 27, 2002 at 07:18:09, Aaron Tay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On March 27, 2002 at 06:55:43, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On March 27, 2002 at 05:28:28, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D]8/B5pp/4k3/P7/6n1/8/P6P/7K b - - 0 41
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Crafty as black played Nxh2!!(??). Yes the game ended draw so the move is
>>>>>>>probably correct, but I doubt, that Crafty's evaluation really understand this.
>>>>>>>E.g. if white plays a6 then black has no way to a8 square...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>*******
>>>>>>You can't have it both ways!  If the move is correct then a6 means nothing.  If
>>>>>>a6 wins then Nxh2 is definitely wrong.  Can you prove that a6 wins?  Crafty is
>>>>>>counting on the Bishop not covering the a8 square I guess.  But this could be
>>>>>>one of the exceptions to the rule if you can prove that a6 wins.  The black King
>>>>>>must head for c7/c8 so it can get to b8 then a8 if the Bishop moves.  I suspect
>>>>>>it all hangs on a tempo.  How is the lone King to stop the two connected passed
>>>>>>pawns without moveing the Bishop?
>>>>>>********
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]8/B7/4k3/P7/6n1/8/P6P/7K b KQkq -
>>>>>
>>>>>Remove black's 2 passed pawns and it still thinks Nxh2 is good with a near draw
>>>>>score..Eventually (21 seconds on mine,depth 18) crafty 18.13 sees the loss after
>>>>>Nxh2 but there is nothing better..
>>>>>
>>>>>I guess the rule does have a problem..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Aaron
>>>>
>>>>Mine doesn't play Nh2 in the above position.  This now becomes a zugzwang
>>>>position with no black pawns to move, which turns it into a trivial mate for
>>>>white...
>>>
>>>I guess that it does not play Nxh2 because of tablebases.
>>>
>>>I wonder what happens when  you add a third pawn for white in the a file.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>No idea... but so long as black has something besides the king, this is a
>>draw...
>
>Not exactly
>It seems that if black has 2 connected pawns then it is a draw
>but one pawn does not mean a draw because white can
>first capture the pawn and later win by zunzwang.
>
>Uri


Right...  when I said "something besides the king" I was thinking of a
bishop or knight or the two passers in the original position.  Black can't
lose if there is no zugzwang...



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.