Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 20:30:23 03/29/02
Go up one level in this thread
On March 29, 2002 at 21:36:55, martin fierz wrote:
>On March 29, 2002 at 18:27:14, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On March 29, 2002 at 11:29:28, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On March 29, 2002 at 10:12:41, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On March 28, 2002 at 20:32:40, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Some things come to mind, thinking a little more about this.
>>>>>
>>>>>First is electromigration. When current goes through circuits, the paths are
>>>>>eroded by miniscule amounts. This basically only matters within dense chips like
>>>>>microprocessors, where the connections are only a few hundred molecules wide.
>>>>>The point is that these chips wear out when you use them, but they're still
>>>>>designed/manufactured for 10+ years of continuous use, so it doesn't really
>>>>>matter. The problem is when you start overclocking and upping the current
>>>>>through the chips--some people claim that with high current, CPUs can be
>>>>>destroyed because of electromigration within 2 years. Again, not a problem if
>>>>>you don't overclock.
>>>>>
>>>>>The only other parts of a computer that wear out are the capacitors and the
>>>>>moving parts, i.e., the fans and hard drive. Old capacitors leak, but I don't
>>>>>know how usage patterns affect this leakage. I also don't know if fans wear out
>>>>>faster if they're left on or if they're cycled on and off. I know that hard
>>>>>drives used to wear when they were turned on and off, but now that we have
>>>>>autoparking heads and so forth, I don't think that's an issue. Laptop
>>>>>power-saving software is constantly turning hard drives on and off, and I
>>>>>haven't heard complains frop laptop users about hard drive lifespans.
>>>>>
>>>>>Really, I don't think it matters. I know people who leave their computers on all
>>>>>day and I know other people who turn theirs on and off many times per day, and
>>>>>the compuers all last a darn long time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Where I live leaving computers on matters a lot, but for a different reason.
>>>>
>>>>Here in Guadeloupe, we are living under a tropical climate.
>>>>
>>>>The climate is very humid, and when I leave a computer off for say one month,
>>>>this computer stays at "room temperature" and is subject to water condensation.
>>>>
>>>>Water molecules contained in the air condense when they touch the metallic parts
>>>>of the computer, everywhere including on printed circuits. This leads to slow
>>>>corrosion of the unprotected metallic parts.
>>>>
>>>>Older computers were better protected against this problem because they were
>>>>built with higher standards and also because the printed circuits paths were
>>>>larger (it took longer for corrosion to eat them completely).
>>>>
>>>>Current motherboards for example are really poorly protected. You can find
>>>>unprotected copper paths everywhere on the surface of a modern motherboard.
>>>>These unprotected areas are time bombs where I live: sooner or later the climate
>>>>will eat them up.
>>>>
>>>>By leaving my computers on all the time I let them stay at a higher temperature.
>>>>Condensation cannot happen when the computer is warmer than "room temperature",
>>>>and this provides some protection against corrosion.
>>>>
>>>>By experience, every time I leave a computer off for a long period of time, I
>>>>have 50% chances to be able to get it working again.
>>>>
>>>>Half of the times it simply won't boot. Generally I have to replace the
>>>>motherboard of the video card to get it working again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As a side note I would say that current hardware is real shit. I have several
>>>>computers built around 1990. They still work fine, and they have been subject to
>>>>corrosion for 8 years now.
>>>>
>>>>Modern hardware cannot resist more than a few months here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>
>>>I wonder if "salt" is also an issue. I heard when you live close to the sea your
>>>car is going to rust much earlier. I am not sure that still holds for nowadays
>>>cars but perhaps the computer industry just doesn't care for people living near
>>>the sea.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>Yes you are absolutely right. Remember the two P200 motherboards you sent me 3
>>years ago? One of them was mounted inside a normal PC box. The other one was
>>mounted without box. Just a power supply connected to the motherboard and a
>>floppy disk. Both were running 24/7.
>>
>>Because it was not protected, the second one died in a few month. The second one
>>still works. At that time I had not understood the problem with the climate and
>>the salted air.
>>
>>Indeed, I have actually _tasted_ the surface of the motherboard. The taste was
>>salty. And salt is extremely corrosive for metal parts.
>>
>>Now that I have moved my office far from the sea, I hope to have at least
>>partially solved this problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>hi christophe!
>
>i live at the sea too for the first time in my life, in honolulu, and my bike
>which is quite new is already rusting. i also think it's the salt in the air.
>i'm a physicist and did a lot of research on aerosols, so i can tell you the
>following: 1) aerosols (like salt particles generated by waves) can travel large
>distances and 2) there are good filters to remove them. you have to look for a
>quality filter which removes even very small particles (100nanometer), put it in
>your aircondish, that could help. better than buying new computers all the time!
>
>aloha
> martin
That's an idea, but here are the problems:
1) I have no air conditionner, neither at home nor at the office. And for
various reasons I cannot install any.
2) In Guadeloupe, houses are designed so the wind can traverse them easily! It's
a kind of "natural air conditionner", as we have a nice soft wind all year long.
Not really good for modern appliances! :)
That's a tough problem to solve...
Christophe
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