Author: Uri Blass
Date: 04:48:29 04/06/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 06, 2002 at 05:03:29, Sune Fischer wrote: >On April 06, 2002 at 02:49:55, Tanya Deborah wrote: > >>I agree with you Jerry. For me is very difficult to see some persons here that >>say that computer programs are not play at 2500 elo. Some time ago, i ask the >>same question to Grand Master Alexey Dreev. Dreev is a very good chess player >>(up to 2600 elo) and he said me that chess programs are definitely better than >>2500 elo. I said to him : Are you sure? Are you completely sure? Dreev said : I >>am completely sure of that. >> >>I also ask the same question to ¨garompon¨ a very good GM in ICC. He also tell >>me that computers are better than 2500 elo. >> >>And... I also ask to GMW Alexandra Kosteniuk. (I have a friendship with her and >>we played some games some time ago) and she said me that computer programs are >>very very strong now. When we talked, she was impressioned by the strenght of >>Gambit Tiger 2. She said me, that she believed that Tiger was the best program >>in the world. Since, 3 very good chess players told me that programs play better >>than 2500 elo. >> >>Like you said, many people need to open the eyes, and understand that we are not >>in 1990 anymore!!. >> >>Regards! >>Tanya Deborah. > >I am one of those ignorant people that have some doubts about the true strength >of the programs ;) >Let me explain why... >We all agree that in tactics nothing beats the computers, but how good are they >at the positional level? >I am sure the programs are way behind GMs in the static analysis of a position, >because a programmer can only implement a bunch of static rules, and not the >extensive knowledge and experience of a GM, often the programmer is not a very >strong player himself, which doesn't exactly help either. >This is a weakness in the programs, it is there but seems to be completely >unexploited by most of the strong players. >Exactly how strong does one needs to be to dissect a program completely is not >clear, but I have heard of players with sub 2000 elo that has a great score >against the programs. I think it can be done, GMs don't bother however. In all >the matches GM vs computer we have seen lately, it's been 4-8 games, far too few >for a complete dissection. > >To my knowledge programs today are mainly used for training, testing new >openings and analysing games, that sort of thing. >GMs are so used to playing humans, that they can't change their style when >facing computers. Much time and energy is wasted by "thinking the wrong way". >Remember that 99.9% of all the games they play are against humans, this is how >they make their living, so bad habbits die hard I guess ;) > >I can be convinced that programs are *truly* above 2500, but I would have to see >the programs enter hard and serious tournaments, where players would bother to >find the weaknesses of their opponents. >A 24 game match against a 2400 player, lots of money at stake, with one days >rest between games and loads of strong GM analysis of the games during the >match, I think the IM would win. I think that if the programmer is allowed to change the program between the games then the best programs with good hardware are going to win even against 2500 player. Uri
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