Author: Will Singleton
Date: 15:15:18 04/09/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 09, 2002 at 10:08:18, Jorge Pichard wrote: >On April 09, 2002 at 09:31:49, Will Singleton wrote: > >>On April 08, 2002 at 23:14:40, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On April 08, 2002 at 21:25:46, Will Singleton wrote: >>> >>>>On April 08, 2002 at 20:54:35, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 20:23:57, Will Singleton wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Wow, ugly game. I'm having a hard time understanding this, it seems illogical. >>>>>>Are you playing many games, then selecting the one Sjeng loses? If so, how >>>>>>many? >>>>> >>>>>I have played many games against other winboard programs such as Gaviota, >>>>>Bestia, faile, Movei, and even against Novag Turqouise; but against Sjeng so far >>>>>only three and the first one I did NOT included since I was using 12 MB default >>>>>for my Celeron 433 Mhz and my Celeron only had 32 MB of memory up until >>>>>yesterday when I decided to upgrade it to 128 MB. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I really don't have much time to test CTP 14.9 since like most of us I do have a >>>>>job. And to answer your silly question, I don't select games, as a matter of >>>>>fact I was as dubious as you are now, and before I had Chess Tiger for Palm I >>>>>also was a disbeliever to even consider CTP to be close to being of an expert >>>>>strength. The only reason why I continue to test CTP 14.9 is probably because I >>>>>resemble you in a way, I'm still NOT too conviced that such a little Gizmo can >>>>>accomplish so much against programs that are considered close to 2400 in >>>>>strength, but the more I test this Little Beast, the more I have to accept the >>>>>fact that it is amazinly strong. >>>>> >>>>>Pichard. >>>> >>>>Look, I appreciate that you test and post games. My question was prompted by >>>>comparing your posted game with sjeng 12L, which seemed to avoid several poor >>>>moves (though I must admit, it did play BxN with the fiachettoed bishop, then >>>>went on to destroy its own kside). >>>> >>>>I don't think my question was silly at all. Had you posted your methodology, I >>>>wouldn't have had to question you. It's a reasonable thing to ask. >>>> >>>>I don't believe CT for Palm is a strong program, simply due to its limited >>>>search depth. >>> >>> >>>You talk about methodology in your second paragraph. Good point. >>> >>>What methodology have you used to evaluate the search depth of Chess Tiger for >>>Palm and to decide that it is "limited"? >>> >>>Do you have a Palm? Have you tested Chess Tiger for Palm? I can't find you in my >>>customer's list. >>> >>> >>> >>> Christophe >>> >>> >> >>I have been using and testing CT for Palm since you brought out 14.1 text-mode >>(I believe that first version was fully functional, though I don't have it >>anymore). I did a lot of testing with it, ran some epd test suites, played >>games vs Palm Genius, played against my program, and played it some myself. CT >>for Palm, imho, is certainly a very fine program. >> >>Common sense, as well as the testing I've done, says that CTpalm will search >>less deeply than most amateur pc programs. That's what I meant by "limited" >>search depth. The fact we're discussing it at all is a tremendous compliment to >>CTpalm, and to your dedication and programming skill. I will shortly add myself >>to your database, and recommend that others do so. :) >> >>Having said that, a few more comments. There has been some discussion in the >>past regarding the playing strength of the Novag Sapphire II vs chess programs >>on the Palm. I read a comment by the fellow who automated the Sapphire on fics, >>who said that his account is routinely crushed by any reasonable pc program >>running on a P166 or greater (Sapphire runs at 32mhz, I think). In testing >>Sapphire vs CTpalm, he also reported CT was getting outsearched by a ply or so >>in a few test games, and did not win any. Put those two observations together. >>Now, admittedly that’s blitz, and standard time-control might be different. >>However, you said yourself that CT should be about equal in strength to the >>Sapphire, citing the Sapphire’s SSDF rating. You also said that the Sapphire >>should be “wiped away” by any program running on a Strongarm at 100mhz. Put >>those two observations together. Given these and other reported results here, >>you can readily understand my scepticism at the Sjeng games. However, strange >>things do happen. >> >>As for testing methodology, you're right that I haven't performed rigorous >>tests. But that's tough to do, since all games have to be run manually, and at >>standard time control (since, as you have said, CTpalm doesn't do well at >>blitz). I think a serial interface between Winboard and Palm would be necessary >>to perform reasonable testing. I'd be happy to write the pc side of the >>interface. I guess that would require you to add some interface code on the >>Palm side, or perhaps you already have an interface. >> >>I enjoy CT for Palm, as I do other programs. And I like to test them, >>especially against mine. CT can do very well, no doubt about it. But, let’s >>not get carried away and imply that it approaches amateur pc programs in >>strength. >> >>Will > >Do you have an x86 or IBM Compatible version of your Amateur 1.5 chess program? >I would be happy to play it vs Chess Tiger 14.9 one game per day at game in 60 >Minutes or 40 moves in 40 minutes. Please email it to me and I shall start >testing it starting today. > >Pichard. Sounds like a plan. I'll have to convert it to run under winboard, and being a mac programmer, it might take awhile. Actually, now that I recall, DC offered to help me a few months back, so maybe it won't take so long. So, what about the bet? Christophe says that CT approaches the level of average amateur progs, I assume without hardware limitation (hardware doesn't matter to CT, but it matters to me). My prog is certainly no better than average, likely worse. So, if you have a 1ghz or better machine, I'll bet Amateur scores at least 8/10, game 60 tc. Bet is $10.00. If you have to run it on the Celeron, then $5.00. :D Will
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