Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 21:31:37 04/09/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 09, 2002 at 14:36:55, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote: >On April 09, 2002 at 13:13:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On April 09, 2002 at 10:59:12, Mike Hood wrote: >> >>>On April 09, 2002 at 09:51:36, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On April 09, 2002 at 06:28:34, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 22:59:34, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 21:48:25, Michael Vox wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 20:24:03, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>And if he were going to face Deeper Blue instead of Fritz, which would he claim is the stronger?< >>>>>>> >>>>>>>He already stated at the initial press conference that he feels Fritz on current >>>>>>>hardware is stronger than DB. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>This commone knowledge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>That is utter horse-hockey. AKA marketing hype and covering himself in case >>>>>>the unexpected happens and he loses... >>>>> >>>>>Do you know names of GM's who say after looking at the games of deeper blue >>>>>against kasparov that Deeper blue is better? >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>> >>>>Who won the match? That is the important data. When another program does >>>>the same in a 40/2hr match of 6 games, then we can talk... >>> >>>I agree with you in part, Robert. Deep Blue vs Kasparov, the score sheet speaks >>>for itself. My main contention concerning Deep Blue is that it was not allowed >>>to play more games against other grandmasters and (this would be more relevant >>>in 2002 than in 1997) against other computers. This has led to bloated estimates >>>of Deep Blue's playing strength. I am sure that Anand, despite being "only" the >>>world's second best player in 1997, is a better anti-computer player, and a >>>series of Deep Blue vs Anand games would have relativised Deep Blue's abilities. >>> >>>I have no criticism of Deep Blue as an entity, but I am very critical of IBM's >>>use of Deep Blue. As soon as the matches against Kasparov were won they couldn't >>>dismantle the hardware fast enough. "Let's quit while we're ahead". What were >>>they afraid of? Evidently IBM weren't as confident of Deep Blue's strength as >>>they claimed to be. >> >> >>Remember several important details: >> >>1. Deep Thought produced a 2650+ rating over 25 consecutive games against >>GM players in 40 move/2hr games. These games were played in tournaments, not >>matches. That was deep thought. >> >>2. Deep Blue 1 (and deep blue junior) played _lots_ of games vs GM players >>at various exhibitions. I went to two consecutive SuperComputing conferences >>(We had ACM events at these conferences several times) and DB Jr was playing >>exhibitions against GM players at both. I watched it thrash Robert Byrne at >>one, for example, in 4 consecutive games. >> >>3. Deep Blue 2 was barely completed prior to the 1997 Kasparov match. They >>didn't play any games with it prior to the match, except for what they could >>do to test the hardware... >> >>4. Deep Thought searched maybe 2M nodes per second. DB2 was 100x faster. >>DB2 was far "smarter" also, according to documents published by Hsu after the >>event. If Deep Thought could produce a 2650 rating at 2M nodes per second, >>how strong do you think DB2 might be? > >Against humans? maybe 2700?, maybe the 2650 figure for Deep thought was >overrated considering the "surprise factor" or the null preparation against a >computer those GM might have had. Who knows? On the other hand, I believe that >elo performance with increasing speed does not correlate in the same way that in >comp vs comp. Then again, is there any reliable data about what I just said? >In favor or against? I doubt it. > >Miguel Deep Thought was very well known. But I won't venture a guess as to how GMs prepared for it, since they simply entered tournaments and would not be certain they would play it. But we see this today as well, where some GM players smash the machines by using anti-computer strategies, while others play normal open games and get smashed themselves...
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