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Subject: Re: Interesting Position...

Author: Andrew Williams

Date: 05:41:59 04/10/02

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On April 10, 2002 at 08:20:24, Steve Maughan wrote:

>I came across this position.
>
>[d]6k1/6np/5ppq/pp1p4/3Pp1K1/4P3/P6Q/8 w - -
>
>I first encountered this position back in ~1987 in Eric Hallsworths excellent
>newsletter - it was with regard to improvements in Richard Lang's engine.  I
>thought I'd see how todays programs compare.
>
>The whole point of the position is that after the obvious Qxh6 black can play
>Nh5, trapping queen and allowing the Queenside pawns to promote.  So the
>position is a good test of how an engine handles trapped pieces and pawn
>promotion.
>
>I tested the engines on my 1.5 GHz P4 with 96 Mb of Hash.  I recorded the time
>for the programs to show that Qh6 is negative and the time to suggest an
>alternative (usually Qb8+).  These are the results:
>
>Program  Negative Alternative (Qb8)
>Fritz 7  56 sec  > 10 min
>Crafty 18.14 2 sec  15 sec
>Tiger  23 secs  > 10 min
>LGoliath 1.5 7 sec  24 sec
>Junior 7 2 min 27 sec > 10 min
>Monarch  5 secs  23 secs
>Nimzo 7.32 3 secs  > 10 min
>Shredder 6.02 6 sec  1 min 55 sec
>Yace  2 secs  11 secs
>
>As you can see many top programs struggle to suggest a better move.  The normal
>scenario is that they see the problem associated with Qh6 but then 'freeze'
>while searching Qb8.  Monarch has no specific knowledge in this position so I
>was surprised that it did so well - null move will be disabled for most of the
>search so maybe this is the problem with the other programs.  I also wonder if
>the others are doing Internal Iterative Deepening which *may* help (Monarch
>does).   My other thought is that maybe this position would be solved quicker if
>the fail soft move was recorded along with upper bounds (alpha) since this would
>give the search and may prevent the 'freeze'.
>

I don't understand what you mean by the "fail-soft move"?

>Regards,
>
>Steve Maughan

It doesn't take PostModernist (on my Athlon 1200) very long at all to see the
problem with Qxh6:

10>   198     0     14906   1.Qxh6 b4 2.Qh3 h5 3.Kg3 Nf5 4.Kf4 Kf7
10=   215     0     41916   1.Qxh6 Ne6 2.Kg3 b4 3.Kf2 f5 4.Ke2 a4 5.Qh2
11>   208     0     75603   1.Qxh6 Ne6 2.Kg3 b4 3.Kf2 a4 4.Qh2 f5 5.Qd6
11=   214     0     79964   1.Qxh6 Ne6 2.Kg3 b4 3.Kf2 a4 4.Qh2 f5 5.Qd6
12>   214     0     99721   1.Qxh6 Ne6 2.Kg3 b4 3.Kf2 a4 4.Qh2 f5 5.Qd6
12=   219     0    139014   1.Qxh6 Ne6 2.Kg3 b4 3.Kf2 a4 4.Qh2 f5 5.Qd6
13>  -522     2    513766   1.Qb8 Ne8 2.Qxe8 Qf8 3.Qxb5 f5 4.Kf4 Qd6
                            5.Kg5 a4 6.Qxa4 Qg3 7.Kf6 Qxe3
13=  -419     4    746241   1.Qb8 Ne8 2.Qxe8 Qf8 3.Qxb5 h5 4.Kg3 Qd6
                            5.Kh3 Qd8 6.Qb7 g5
14>  -439     6   1198282   1.Qb8 Ne8 2.Qxe8 Qf8 3.Qxb5 h5 4.Kg3 Qd8
                            5.Qb7 f5 6.Kh3 g5 7.Kg3 h4 8.Kh3
14=  -429     6   1264249   1.Qb8 Ne8 2.Qxe8 Qf8 3.Qxb5 h5 4.Kg3 Qd8
                            5.Qb7 f5 6.a3 g5 7.a4 h4 8.Kh3


Andrew



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