Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 19:09:11 04/10/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 09, 2002 at 18:15:18, Will Singleton wrote:
>On April 09, 2002 at 10:08:18, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>
>>On April 09, 2002 at 09:31:49, Will Singleton wrote:
>>
>>>On April 08, 2002 at 23:14:40, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 21:25:46, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 20:54:35, Jorge Pichard wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 08, 2002 at 20:23:57, Will Singleton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wow, ugly game. I'm having a hard time understanding this, it seems illogical.
>>>>>>>Are you playing many games, then selecting the one Sjeng loses? If so, how
>>>>>>>many?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have played many games against other winboard programs such as Gaviota,
>>>>>>Bestia, faile, Movei, and even against Novag Turqouise; but against Sjeng so far
>>>>>>only three and the first one I did NOT included since I was using 12 MB default
>>>>>>for my Celeron 433 Mhz and my Celeron only had 32 MB of memory up until
>>>>>>yesterday when I decided to upgrade it to 128 MB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I really don't have much time to test CTP 14.9 since like most of us I do have a
>>>>>>job. And to answer your silly question, I don't select games, as a matter of
>>>>>>fact I was as dubious as you are now, and before I had Chess Tiger for Palm I
>>>>>>also was a disbeliever to even consider CTP to be close to being of an expert
>>>>>>strength. The only reason why I continue to test CTP 14.9 is probably because I
>>>>>>resemble you in a way, I'm still NOT too conviced that such a little Gizmo can
>>>>>>accomplish so much against programs that are considered close to 2400 in
>>>>>>strength, but the more I test this Little Beast, the more I have to accept the
>>>>>>fact that it is amazinly strong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Pichard.
>>>>>
>>>>>Look, I appreciate that you test and post games. My question was prompted by
>>>>>comparing your posted game with sjeng 12L, which seemed to avoid several poor
>>>>>moves (though I must admit, it did play BxN with the fiachettoed bishop, then
>>>>>went on to destroy its own kside).
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't think my question was silly at all. Had you posted your methodology, I
>>>>>wouldn't have had to question you. It's a reasonable thing to ask.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't believe CT for Palm is a strong program, simply due to its limited
>>>>>search depth.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You talk about methodology in your second paragraph. Good point.
>>>>
>>>>What methodology have you used to evaluate the search depth of Chess Tiger for
>>>>Palm and to decide that it is "limited"?
>>>>
>>>>Do you have a Palm? Have you tested Chess Tiger for Palm? I can't find you in my
>>>>customer's list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I have been using and testing CT for Palm since you brought out 14.1 text-mode
>>>(I believe that first version was fully functional, though I don't have it
>>>anymore). I did a lot of testing with it, ran some epd test suites, played
>>>games vs Palm Genius, played against my program, and played it some myself. CT
>>>for Palm, imho, is certainly a very fine program.
>>>
>>>Common sense, as well as the testing I've done, says that CTpalm will search
>>>less deeply than most amateur pc programs. That's what I meant by "limited"
>>>search depth. The fact we're discussing it at all is a tremendous compliment to
>>>CTpalm, and to your dedication and programming skill. I will shortly add myself
>>>to your database, and recommend that others do so. :)
>>>
>>>Having said that, a few more comments. There has been some discussion in the
>>>past regarding the playing strength of the Novag Sapphire II vs chess programs
>>>on the Palm. I read a comment by the fellow who automated the Sapphire on fics,
>>>who said that his account is routinely crushed by any reasonable pc program
>>>running on a P166 or greater (Sapphire runs at 32mhz, I think). In testing
>>>Sapphire vs CTpalm, he also reported CT was getting outsearched by a ply or so
>>>in a few test games, and did not win any. Put those two observations together.
>>>Now, admittedly that’s blitz, and standard time-control might be different.
>>>However, you said yourself that CT should be about equal in strength to the
>>>Sapphire, citing the Sapphire’s SSDF rating. You also said that the Sapphire
>>>should be “wiped away” by any program running on a Strongarm at 100mhz. Put
>>>those two observations together. Given these and other reported results here,
>>>you can readily understand my scepticism at the Sjeng games. However, strange
>>>things do happen.
>>>
>>>As for testing methodology, you're right that I haven't performed rigorous
>>>tests. But that's tough to do, since all games have to be run manually, and at
>>>standard time control (since, as you have said, CTpalm doesn't do well at
>>>blitz). I think a serial interface between Winboard and Palm would be necessary
>>>to perform reasonable testing. I'd be happy to write the pc side of the
>>>interface. I guess that would require you to add some interface code on the
>>>Palm side, or perhaps you already have an interface.
>>>
>>>I enjoy CT for Palm, as I do other programs. And I like to test them,
>>>especially against mine. CT can do very well, no doubt about it. But, let’s
>>>not get carried away and imply that it approaches amateur pc programs in
>>>strength.
>>>
>>>Will
>>
>>Do you have an x86 or IBM Compatible version of your Amateur 1.5 chess program?
>>I would be happy to play it vs Chess Tiger 14.9 one game per day at game in 60
>>Minutes or 40 moves in 40 minutes. Please email it to me and I shall start
>>testing it starting today.
>>
>>Pichard.
>
>
>Sounds like a plan. I'll have to convert it to run under winboard, and being a
>mac programmer, it might take awhile. Actually, now that I recall, DC offered
>to help me a few months back, so maybe it won't take so long.
>
>So, what about the bet? Christophe says that CT approaches the level of average
>amateur progs, I assume without hardware limitation (hardware doesn't matter to
>CT, but it matters to me).
Nice attempt. ;-)
Christophe
> My prog is certainly no better than average, likely
>worse. So, if you have a 1ghz or better machine, I'll bet Amateur scores at
>least 8/10, game 60 tc. Bet is $10.00. If you have to run it on the Celeron,
>then $5.00. :D
>
>Will
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