Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Unbelieveable...Kramnik says Fritz is better than deep Blue

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 03:15:35 04/12/02

Go up one level in this thread


On April 12, 2002 at 00:11:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 11, 2002 at 14:34:20, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On April 11, 2002 at 09:39:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On April 11, 2002 at 05:37:15, stuart taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 11, 2002 at 04:46:01, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 10, 2002 at 17:57:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 10, 2002 at 17:28:34, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 10, 2002 at 01:24:55, Joshua Lee wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=255
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Kramnik may not know anything about programming but when he says Fritz was
>>>>>>>>suggesting objectively better moves than Deep Blue Played.....For someone of his
>>>>>>>>level of play to say such a thing. DB might have had extra knowledge than fritz
>>>>>>>>or any other program doesn't who really knows.....there is not enough
>>>>>>>>disclosure. Still i would like to see if anyone has found a position from either
>>>>>>>>match inwhich DB played a move that is out of Commercials grasp.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I am pretty sure this is like the thousandth message that asks this question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He was stating the obvious. Fritz6 and Junior6 were already stronger than DB,
>>>>>>>and I said so at the time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Amir
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Obvious to _whom_???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>not anyone in "reality" I don't think...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or did I miss where Fritz6 and Junior6 beat kasparov in a 6 game match at
>>>>>>40/2???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob, take some good advice, you are going to lose this one. I agree, much has to
>>>>>do with wishful thinking, you can't fight that :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>>Ed or others, how do you explain Bobs eloquent descriptions of the massive
>>>>amount of knowledge, not at expense of calculation speed etc. which was put into
>>>>DB?
>>>>S.Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>He doesn't and he wasn't trying to.  Re-read what he wrote.  He described
>>>a "futile argument" problem.  And note the ":)" which is important.  :)
>>
>>
>>Bob, you missed the point, the argument itself isn't futile at all. I think the
>>majority (myself included) truly believes nowayds chess programs are clearly
>>superior to DB-97. Since nobody can proof himself being right, the thing doesn't
>>exist any longer, the wishful thinking starts.
>>
>>I consider you as the last of the Mohicans, when are you going to give up, 2010,
>>2020, ever?
>>
>>Please smile, for a moment I feel back in the good old days of 1996 and I won't
>>challenge you for another hysteric 1-100 game, I promise :)
>>
>>Ed
>
>I will "give up" when computers are capable of searching in the same speed range
>as DB2 which is an average of 200M nodes per second.  At such a point, DB's
>tactical superiority will be in doubt due to recent results with null-move
>and other forward pruning approaches.  By the time computers can search 200M
>nps, the evaluations will also be significantly more refined than they are today
>erasing that DB2 advantage as well...
>
>2010 is probably an upper bound...  maybe 2007 (10 years after DB2 played).

I am sure I can wait till 2007 you saying that :)

Notwithstanding all the DB bashing, the DB-97 event *is* the highlight in
computer chess, I can't imagine a reason or another event that will change that.
In 2278 nobody will remember Crafty an/or Rebel, but DB will be listed in the
history books.

Ed



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.