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Subject: Re: Robert------Deep Blue knowledge question

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 12:00:36 04/13/02

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On April 12, 2002 at 15:04:54, Tom Likens wrote:

>
>
>I probably shouldn't comment, since this topic seems to have become
>a religious debate, still...
>
>As an ASIC/Analog IC engineer I can guarantee you that hardware done
>"right" will blow away software everytime.  No offense to the chess software
>programmers (of which I am one :), but custom hardware wins hands down.
>Unlike the recent debates on FPGAs, an ASIC solution gets the full benefits of
>the speed. When Hsu claimed Deep Blue was running at X-MHz, guess what,
>it *was* running at X-MHz!!  This debate about speed is crazy.  Deep Blue
>was done in 0.6u technology.  That is ancient, modern ASICs are 0.13u copper
>processes, with 0.1u just around the corner.  Hsu could get a staggering jump
>in speed by just doing a dumb shrink on his design- more than likely an order
>of magnitude (and probably more).  And if he improved the basic hardware
>design, ... well who knows?!
>
>As far as positional items go.  Hsu and his team were bright guys with FULL-
>TIME grandmasters on the team (who were being paid by IBM no less).  It was
>their *job* to come in every day and make Deep Blue a better chess playing
>computer (talk about Nirvana ;) I find it hard to believe that Deep Blue
>didn't have a reasonable grasp (at least as good as the micros) of the main
>positional ideas of chess.  Did it understand everything, of course not, but
>I bet it was damn good (just ask Kasparov).
>
>The current batch of software programmers are good, maybe some of the
>best ever but frankly when talking about Deep Blue it is *not* a level
>playing field.  The deck is heavily stacked against the PCs.
>
>Anyway, just my two cents.

But can 50 guys do in 1 year what 1 guy can do in 20?
I think one of the most important factors in top computerchess is testing
methology, some stages of the development process are very hard to speed up even
if you have a huge staff and unlimited resources. It is about tiny incremental
improvements, collecting data, comparing, changing, collecting data.... I don't
see why 50 guys could do this much faster, really.

Yes DB did a lot of nodes but they were brute force, ie. redundant most of them,
so take them out and what kind of nps are we really looking at?

-S.

>regards,
>--tom



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