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Subject: Re: One mate to solve.

Author: Heiner Marxen

Date: 17:04:10 04/13/02

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On April 13, 2002 at 15:59:39, leonid wrote:

>On April 13, 2002 at 15:15:07, John Merlino wrote:
>
>>On April 13, 2002 at 14:49:12, leonid wrote:
>>
>>>On April 13, 2002 at 14:36:31, John Merlino wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 13, 2002 at 07:49:31, leonid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>>Recently I found that for many programs selective search for mate is pretty
>>>>>different. At least, in few recent mate positions my default selective was
>>>>>useless. I am curious to see how many other programs can solve this position by
>>>>>selective. Mine was useless on this even if it look like to be ideal for
>>>>>selective. Position in itself is not deep, or very difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]1qbqkbq1/QBRNBNQ1/1QnQpQn1/1q1RQ1p1/3rn3/2Q2Q2/Q6K/1r4r1 w - -
>>>>>
>>>>>Please indicate your result, never mind your way of solving this mate.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know if it's the shortest mate, but it took Chessmaster a long time (on
>>>>a PIII-733) to find Mate in 10 anyway (with some HUGE evals along the way), as
>>>>the first seven moves are all non-checking moves:
>>>
>>>
>>>So, actually Chessmaster took this position by selective and not that far from
>>>shortest one. Pretty good!
>>>
>>>This position is mate in 9 moves.
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Leonid.
>>
>>I'm trying Chessmaster's Solve for Mate mode. It finished depth 8 in just a few
>>minutes, but is taking quite a long time to finish depth 9. It still hasn't
>>announced mate in 9, and it has been going for almost 40 minutes on my PIII-733
>>(over five minutes longer than it took to announce Mate in 10 via selective
>>search).
>
>
>What is exactly "Mate mode"? Is this forced mate, in other words search that
>look for every possible mate and miss no mates? And how you indicated before to
>your program to look for mate?
>
>I remember Chessmater 4000 as very good mate solver but I don't remember exactly
>if its mate look like to be forced mate, or selective, or just both in sequence.
>Few solutions that were presented here were quick and were found on  Chessmater
>8000. I am almost sure that they were found by selective search.
>
>My program also felt big jump in branching factor between 7 and 8 move. It went
>to 13.09 after being just before this only 6.3. It could be that later, between
>8 and 9 move, branching became even worst. What happened later I don't know. My
>program stop just after first solution.

Chest shows the same effect (K7/600, 350 MB hash, 3.9 hours):

#  4      0.10s [  5.00]        5kN [  4.96]  1.02        866-         0
#  5      0.41s [  4.10]       20kN [  3.71]  1.15       3165-         0
#  6      1.49s [  3.63]       75kN [  3.80]  1.44      10739-         0
#  7      9.59s [  6.44]      609kN [  8.16]  1.61      60240-         0
#  8    210.98s [ 22.00]    15973kN [ 26.22]  1.59    1072278-         0
#  9  13847.86s [ 65.64]  1122335kN [ 70.26]  1.69   58979212-  50231311

For depth up to 7 black finds enough checks to hinder white from mating.
Going deeper, this does not work any more, and the search trees become large.
Chest find 2 solutions for the mate in 9:

PV: Qdxe6 Rh1+ Qxh1 Rd2+ Qcxd2 Rxh1+ Kxh1 Nf2+ Qbxf2 Qh8+ Qxh8 Qxd5+ Qaxd5 Qxd7
Nd6+ Qxd6 Qff7#
PV: Qxb1 Rh1+ Qbxh1 Rd2+ Qbf2 Rxf2+ Qaxf2 Qh7+ Nh6 Qxh6+ Qxh6 Qxe7 Qhxg6+ Kd8
Nxb8+ Bd7 Rc8#

Most of the time black directs what happens.  I let Chest print the solution
tree 7 plies deep (option -lll) and got over 13,000 lines of output.  Wow!

Cheers,
Heiner

>Leonid.
>
>>jm



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