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Subject: Re: Endgame position

Author: Sune Larsson

Date: 09:20:27 04/15/02

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On April 15, 2002 at 11:30:36, James T. Walker wrote:

>On April 14, 2002 at 12:38:46, Sune Larsson wrote:
>
>>On April 14, 2002 at 12:32:07, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>
>>>On April 14, 2002 at 09:02:37, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [D]8/1P3kP1/2P5/2K5/5b2/2B2b2/8/8 w - - 0 75
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is from the game Jurasek 2305 - Piza 2290, 1997.
>>>> White can make no progress so the game was drawn here.
>>>>
>>>> Evals from some programs:
>>>>
>>>> Yace        +- 1.96   1.Kb6   Ply 17
>>>> Junior7     +- 2.12   1.Bd4   Ply 22
>>>> ShredderP   +- 2.61   1.Bf6   Ply 19
>>>> CM Nextas   +- 2.66   1.Kb6   Ply 16
>>>> Fritz 7     +- 3.25   1.Ba1   Ply 17
>>>> CT 14       +- 3.98   1.Kb6   Ply 19
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If the humans were only rated around 2300 and Fritz 7 is rated over 2650, then
>>>Fritz's evaluation of +3.25 (or Tiger's eval of +3.98) must be correct and the
>>>humans' evaluations of +0.00 (drawn) must be wrong.
>>>
>>>Surely weak humans of 2300 can't understand more about a position than mighty
>>>machines of 2650+.
>>>
>>>Right?
>>
>>
>> Right! ;-)


>
>I don't believe modern chess programs understand any positions.  Sometimes their
>eval functions match what humans think is correct and they are said to
>"understand" this position. ??


 Interesting. Have a look at the quots below from first Pichard, then the
 answer from Robert Hyatt.

 Sune



>It is NOT that Computers programs which are estimated to be rated 2700 has
>performed like a 1700, it simply did not calculated the outcome of the King
>Side attack.
>
>Pichard


>Not "did not calculate".  Instead, "did not understand"...

(Quot from Robert Hyatt)












Most chess programs are written to play chess
>and not correctly evaluate board positions.  That is they are designed to play
>the best moves in literally any situation that arises.  Of course none can do
>that perfectly.  If I had written any of the above mentioned programs I would
>not concern myself with the "score".  I would only be concerned with the program
>making the best move in that position.  The score is simply a means to decide
>which move is the best.  The fact that they don't seem to agree on what is the
>best move here may be the telling factor.  Maybe there is no "best move".  I
>doubt that any of the programs would lose this position from either side against
>a 2300 player.  That is more important than spitting out the exact score for the
>position. (IMHO)
>Jim



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