Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:04:10 04/15/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 15, 2002 at 13:38:56, Roy Eassa wrote: >On April 15, 2002 at 13:30:07, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On April 15, 2002 at 13:23:54, Roy Eassa wrote: >> >>>On April 15, 2002 at 12:40:09, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On April 15, 2002 at 11:52:41, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>"Can you name any GM that would play a single game that looks as bad as >>>>> that one?" >>>> >>>>I can off the top of my head...and I'm sure I can find them of just about any GM >>>>play. >>>> >>>>But here is one GM for you since that all you asked for. >>>> >>>>GM Vassily Ivanchuk!!! >>>> >>>>[Event "FIDE WCh KO Final"] >>>>[Site "Moscow RUS"] >>>>[Date "2002.01.16"] >>>>[Round "7.1"] >>>>[White "Ponomariov,R"] >>>>[Black "Ivanchuk,V"] >>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>[WhiteElo "2727"] >>>>[BlackElo "2717"] >>>>[EventDate "2002.01.16"] >>>>[ECO "C11"] >>>> >>>>1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 dxe4 5. Nxe4 Be7 6. Bxf6 Bxf6 7. Nf3 >>>>O-O 8. Qd2 Be7 9. O-O-O Qd5 10. Nc3 Qa5 11. a3 Nd7 12. Kb1 Qb6 13. Qe3 Nf6 >>>>14. Ne5 Rd8 15. Bc4 Bd7 16. Bb3 Be8 17. Rhe1 Bf8 18. g4 Nd5 19. Qf3 c6 20. >>>>Ne4 Qc7 21. c4 Ne7 22. Ng5 Nc8 23. c5 1-0 >>> >>> >>>I don't think Ivanchuk showed quite the same positional cluelessness in this >>>game as Shredder showed against Smirin. >>> >>>But anyway, my contention is NOT that "Every GM is always better than >>>computers." My contention is this: >>> >>>"Many GMs can, and SOME probably will (within 5 or 10 years), acquire the skills >>>and techniques necessary to consistently outscore the top PC chess programs." >>> >>>I frequently read posts that state that in the last couple years GMs have lost >>>more games than they have won against top PCs. That may be true, but it is >>>COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the contention that: >>> >>>"Many GMs can, and SOME probably will (within 5 or 10 years), acquire the skills >>>and techniques necessary to consistently outscore the top PC chess programs." >>> >>>The contention could be wrong. But I don't think one should completely CLOSE >>>one's mind to the possibility that it may be accurate. There are concrete >>>reasons to believe that future results may differ from past results. And, of >>>course, your mileage may vary. :-) >> >>Also there is a huge difference between (a) making a tactical error and losing >>a game and (b) not understanding the position at all until it is way too late >>to do anything about it. > > > >That's pretty much what I tried to say, except I am not strong enough to know if >Ivanchuk lost only because of a tactical error. I was giving Mark the benefit >of the doubt that Ivanchuk was outplayed positionally -- but not to the degree >that Shredder was! Being out-played positionally is also not uncommon. That is what separates GMs from super-GM players. But you won't find GM players that have huge holes in their positional understanding. IE king safety. Simple endgame pawn structures. Etc... yes they get "out-thought". But not by 1800 players...
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