Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Did Smirin have an easy win in game 2?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 04:01:40 04/16/02

Go up one level in this thread


On April 16, 2002 at 06:33:35, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 16, 2002 at 06:24:42, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 16, 2002 at 05:49:13, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On April 15, 2002 at 17:46:55, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>
>>>>[Event "Internet match"]
>>>>[Site "?"]
>>>>[Date "2002.04.15"]
>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>[White "Hiarcs 8"]
>>>>[Black "Ilya Smirin"]
>>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>>>>[ECO "E92"]
>>>>[BlackElo "2702"]
>>>>[PlyCount "79"]
>>>>
>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. dxe5 dxe5 8.
>>>>Qxd8 Rxd8 9. Bg5 Re8 10. Nd5 Nxd5 11. cxd5 c6 12. Bc4 b5 13. Bb3 a5 14. a4 Bd7
>>>>15. Nd2 bxa4 16. Bxa4 cxd5 17. exd5 Bxa4 18. Rxa4 Nd7 19. Be3 Bf8 20. Nc4 Bb4+
>>>>21. Ke2 Rec8 22. b3 Rab8 23. Nxa5 Bxa5 24. Rxa5 Rxb3 25. Rd1 Kf8 26. d6 Rb7 27.
>>>>Rc1 Rxc1 28. Ra8+ Rb8 29. Rxb8+ Nxb8 30. Bxc1 Ke8 31. Kd3 Kd7 32. Ba3 f5 33. g3
>>>>g5 34. h3 h5 35. Kc4 Kc6 36. Kd3 Nd7 37. f3 Nf6 38. g4 fxg4 39. fxg4 hxg4 40.
>>>>hxg4 1/2-1/2
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Position after 38.g4:
>>>>
>>>>[d] 8/8/2kP1n2/4pppp/6P1/B2K1P1P/8/8 b - - 0 38
>>>>
>>>>Can somebody confirm (or disprove) that this simple line would have won fairly
>>>>easily for Black? :
>>>>
>>>>38...hxg4 39.hxg4 (forced) f4+ 40.Kd3 (forced) Kd7
>>>>
>>>>Looks like a win for Black, but a stronger player's opinion is requested.
>>>
>>>
>>>Rebel (giving it 30-60 secs average) came up with this line...
>>>
>>>1... hxg4 2. hxg4 f4 3. Ke2 Kd7 4. Bb4 Ne8 5. Bc3 Kxd6 6. Bb4+ Ke6 7. Ba5 Nd6 8.
>>>Bd8 Nf7 9. Ba5 Kd5 10. Kd3 Nd6 11. Bd8 Nb5 12. Ke2 Nd4+ 13. Kf2 Ne6 14. Bb6 Kc4
>>>15. Ba5 Kc5 16. Bc3 Nd4 17. Ba5 Nc6 18. Bc3 Kc4 19. Ba1 Kb3 20. Ke2 Kc2 21. Kf2
>>>Kd2 22. Bb2 Nb4 23. Ba3 Nd3+ 24. Kf1 Ke3 25. Be7 Kxf3 26. Bxg5 e4 0-1
>>>
>>>I am not sure if white has an escape after all, but it seems to be the classical
>>>struggle the knight being superior to the bishop.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>
>>yace says that 3.Ke2 is losing 0.01 pawns and I suspect that these 0.01 pawns
>>may be decisive for the result of the game.
>>
>>New position
>>8/8/2kP1n2/4p1p1/5pP1/B2K1P2/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:
>>
>>3.Ke2 Ne8 4.Bb2 Kxd6 5.Ba3+ Ke6 6.Bf8 Nd6 7.Bh6 Nf7 8.Bg7 Kd5 9.Kd3 Nd6 10.Ke2
>>e4 11.Bf6 Nf7 12.Kf2 exf3 13.Bh8
>>  µ  (-1.18)   Depth: 19   00:04:52  76538kN
>>3.Bb4 e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Nxe5+ 6.Ke4 Nc4 7.Bc3 Nxd6+ 8.Kf3 Nc4 9.Ke4 Kd7
>>10.Bf6 Nd2+ 11.Kd3 Nf3
>>  µ  (-1.17)   Depth: 19   00:08:00  149829kN
>>3.Bb4 e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Nxe5+ 6.Ke4 Nc4 7.Bc3 Nxd6+ 8.Kf3 Nc4 9.Ke4
>>  µ  (-1.17)   Depth: 19   00:08:45  167224kN
>>
>>(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)
>>
>>Uri
>
>The score for 3.Bb4 goes down at depth 20
>I expect the score to stop going down if the position is a real draw.
>
>Inspite of the fact that the  score for 3.Bb4 goes down yace does not find a
>better alternative at depth 20.
>
>[D]8/8/2kP1n2/4p1p1/5pP1/B2K1P2/8/8 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:
>
>  3.Bb4 e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Nxe5+ 6.Ke4 Nc4 7.Bc3 Nxd6+ 8.Kf3 Nc4 9.Ke4 Kd7
>10.Bf6 Nd2+ 11.Kd3 Nf3 12.Ke4 Ne1 13.Bxg5 f3 14.Ke3
>  µ  (-1.21)   Depth: 20   00:16:50  325381kN
>
>(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)
>
>Uri

The main line of yace clearly leads to a draw and it seems that 3...e4+ is bad.

Here is the analysis after 8.Kf3

New position
8/8/2kn4/6p1/5p2/2B2K2/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:


8...Nc4 9.Ke4 Kd6 10.Bf6 Nd2+ 11.Kd3 g4 12.Kxd2 Ke6 13.Bc3 Kf5 14.Ke2 Ke4 15.Kf2
Kd3 16.Be5 f3 17.Kg3 Kc4 18.Bf4 Kb4 19.Be3 f2 20.Bxf2 Kb3 21.Kxg4
  =  (-0.11)   Depth: 19   00:01:48  43297kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)

After some learning I can get also score of almost draw before 6.Ke4 and before
5.e5

If black has a win it is clearly not by 3...e4+ because after e4+ black has
nothing better than 4...Nxg4+ that is enough only for a draw.

New position
8/8/2kP4/4n1p1/1B3p2/3K4/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

6.Ke4 Nc4 7.Bc3 Kxd6 8.Bf6 Nd2+ 9.Kd3 g4 10.Kxd2 Ke6 11.Bh4 Kf5 12.Ke2 Ke4
13.Kf2 Kd3 14.Bg5 f3 15.Be3 Kc2 16.Kg3 Kd3 17.Bb6 Kc3
  =  (-0.12)   Depth: 16   00:00:02  754kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)

New position
8/8/2kP4/6p1/1B2Ppn1/3K4/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+ 11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 17   00:00:22  5301kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)

New position
8/8/2kP1n2/6p1/1B2PpP1/3K4/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

4...Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+ 11.Kg3 Kxd7
12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 17   00:00:37  13677kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)


New position
[D]8/8/2kP1n2/4p1p1/1B3pP1/3K1P2/8/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace 0.99.56:

3...Nxg4 4.fxg4
  +-  (2.12)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
3...Nh7
  ±  (0.76)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
3...Nd5
  ²  (0.55)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
3...Nd7
  ²  (0.47)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 6   00:00:00  1kN
3...e4+ 4.fxe4 Nxg4 5.e5 Kd5 6.Bc3 Nh6 7.d7 Nf7 8.e6 Kxe6 9.Ke4 f3 10.Kxf3 g4+
11.Kg3 Kxd7 12.Kxg4
  =  (-0.20)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  3kN
3...Kd7 4.Ba3 e4+ 5.Ke2 Ne8 6.Bc5 exf3+ 7.Kxf3 Nxd6 8.Ba3 Ke6 9.Bc1 Ke5 10.Bd2
Nf7 11.Bc3+ Ke6 12.Bd2 Ne5+ 13.Ke4 Nxg4 14.Kf3 Nf6 15.Bc3
  =  (-0.21)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  3kN
3...Kd7 4.Bc5 Ne8 5.Kc4 Nxd6+ 6.Kd5 Nf7
  ³  (-0.55)   Depth: 7   00:00:00  3kN
3...Kd7 4.Bc5 Ne8 5.Kc4 Nxd6+ 6.Kd5 Nf7 7.Ke4
  ³  (-0.52)   Depth: 8   00:00:00  17kN
3...Kd7 4.Bc5 Ne8 5.Kc4 Nxd6+ 6.Kd5 Nf7 7.Bb4 Kd8
  ³  (-0.51)   Depth: 9   00:00:00  42kN
3...Kd7 4.Bc5 Ke6 5.Bb4 Ne8 6.Ba5 Nxd6 7.Bd8 Nf7 8.Bc7
  ³  (-0.68)   Depth: 10   00:00:00  125kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 Ne8 5.Kd3 Nxd6 6.Ba5 Ke6 7.Bd8 Nf7 8.Ba5 Kd5
  µ  (-0.76)   Depth: 11   00:00:00  421kN
3...Kd7 4.Ba5 Kxd6 5.Bd8 Nh7 6.Ke4 Ke6
  µ  (-0.72)   Depth: 12   00:00:01  576kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 e4 5.Bc3 Ke6 6.Ba5 exf3+ 7.Kxf3 Kxd6 8.Bd8 Ke6 9.Ba5 Kd7 10.Bb4
Nd5 11.Bf8 Ke6 12.Bg7
  µ  (-1.11)   Depth: 13   00:00:03  1658kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 e4 5.Bc3 Ke6 6.Kf2 e3+ 7.Ke2 Ne8 8.Ba5 Nxd6 9.Bd8 Nf7 10.Bc7
  µ  (-1.10)   Depth: 14   00:00:05  2715kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 e4 5.Bc3 Ke6 6.Ba5 exf3+ 7.Kxf3 Kxd6 8.Bb4+ Kd7 9.Bf8 Ng8 10.Bg7
Ke6 11.Bb2
  µ  (-0.93)   Depth: 15   00:00:10  4917kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 e4 5.Bc3 Ke6 6.Ba5 exf3+ 7.Kxf3 Kxd6 8.Bd8 Ke6 9.Bc7 Nd5 10.Bd8
Ne7 11.Bc7 Ng6 12.Ba5
  µ  (-1.03)   Depth: 16   00:00:19  8769kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 Ne8 5.Bc3 Kxd6 6.Bb4+ Ke6 7.Bf8 e4 8.Bh6 exf3+ 9.Kxf3 Kf6 10.Bf8
Nc7
  µ  (-1.09)   Depth: 17   00:00:40  17982kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 Ne8 5.Bc3 Kxd6 6.Bb4+ Ke6 7.Bf8 e4 8.Bh6 exf3+ 9.Kxf3 Kf6 10.Bf8
Nc7 11.Ke4 Ne6 12.Bd6 Kf7 13.Be5
  µ  (-1.11)   Depth: 18   00:01:15  31662kN
3...Kd7 4.Ke2 Ne8 5.Bc3 Kxd6 6.Bb4+ Ke6 7.Bf8 Nd6 8.Bh6 Nf7 9.Bg7 Kd5 10.Kd3 Nd6
11.Bh6 e4+ 12.Ke2
  µ  (-1.12)   Depth: 19   00:02:51  63488kN

(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.04.2002)

Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.