Author: Don Dailey
Date: 08:49:33 07/19/98
Go up one level in this thread
On July 18, 1998 at 20:48:29, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: > >On July 18, 1998 at 10:58:09, Don Dailey wrote: > >>On July 17, 1998 at 22:00:27, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >> >>> >>>On July 17, 1998 at 14:44:23, Christophe Theron wrote: >>> >>>>On July 17, 1998 at 13:49:55, Roberto Waldteufel wrote: >>>> >>>>>Hi Don, >>>>> >>>>>The more restrictions you add, the more programmers are excluded. I program in >>>>>32-bit compiled Basic, and tweak intensively used code with Assembler, on a >>>>>Pentium 333, so I guess that would disqualify me on three counts? I don't think >>>>>there can be much argument that Assembler is best for performance, but harder to >>>>>program in. So if a programmer accepts the challenge and puts in the extra >>>>>effort to write an Assembler program that does exactly the same as an eqivalent >>>>>C program, but twice as fast, surely this is a greater programming achievement? >>>> >>>>You are right. Your program should not be excluded because it is programmed in >>>>Basic/Assembler. No problem. >>>> >>>>The Pentium 333 could be a problem if we decide that 300MHz is the limit, but >>>>surely we could work around that in several ways. Maybe by giving you 10% less >>>>time, as this was done in the last WMCCC in Paris when a fast computer was >>>>playing against one of the provided K6-200. >>>> >>>>If we are wise enough (are we?) to try to solve such "problems" in a positive >>>>way, the event could take place. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>I don't think it is possible to completely separate "programming" from hardware. >>>>>Programmers and programs exist only because of the hardware that supports them. >>>>>To my mind, the "best chess programmer" is hardware dependant. It is about >>>>>squeazing best possible chess out of a given hardware configuration, and as such >>>>>I think that the "best programmer" of an Alpha is a different thing from the >>>>>"best programmer" of an Intel. And in both cases, the programmer that writes an >>>>>efficient Assembler program is likely to be the one to achieve the necessary >>>>>efficiency,regardless of hardware. >>>> >>>>It is impossible to organize a stricly uniform platform event, I know. But it is >>>>possible to get near that, which is interesting enough I think. >>>> >>>>We could say that the choice of the processor is one of the programmer's skills. >>>>If we agree on "400MHz Alpha roughly as fast as 300MHz Intel for chess >>>>programming", we are still comparing the programmer's skills. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>If it is not to be "anything goes" in terms of programming language, you get >>>>>into a minefield of who to allow and who to exclude. What's wrong with Pascal, >>>>>for instance? In the format you suggest, it should be called the "Chess >>>>>C-programmer's Championship"! >>>> >>>>IMO, anything goes in term of programming language. So no problem with your >>>>program or a Pascal program or a Cobol program. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Christophe >>> >>>Hi Christophe, >>> >>>Sounds good to me. I have always programmed out of necessity for the computer I >>>owned at the time, which happens to be a P333 at present. It will run OK on >>>other Pentiums, but I don't know where I would get hold of one! For a uniform >>>(or nearly so) platform, it would probably be best if some publicity-seeking >>>company could be persuaded to loan the hardware for the event. Then everyone >>>gets the same hardware, and nobody has to travel with their computer "on their >>>backs". I would be travelling alone, and transporting my PC as well as my >>>ordinary luggage would pose very great logistical problems for me. >>> >>>I think the best thing about this kind of event is the chance to meet other >>>programmers in person and exchange ideas. I have never actually met anyone else >>>who programs chess except on the net. >>> >>>Best wishes, >>>Roberto >> >>Well you are in for a treat then. My very first tournament was a >>wonderful time for me even though my program almost finished in last >>place. I had no expectations and could not have cared less, I simply >>had a great time. >> >>In my case, just about everyone was willing to share their good >>ideas with me and were very helpful to me. In particular, Tony >>Sherzer the programmer of BeBe was very encouraging and made me >>feel a part of the group. It's too bad I cannot tell him that >>now. >> >>As soon as I got home I scrapped the program I had and started from >>scratch on a new one which was light years ahead of the previous >>one based on knowledge I had gained at this tournament. >> >>If you come, you will get treated the same way I did at this first >>tournament. (Including the part where we beat up on your program :-) >> >>- Don > >Hi Don, > >I very much hope I can come, but it won't be easy for me. I would be on a very >tight budget, the dates would be critical, and I don't know if I can transport >my PC or not. If that is not possible, would there be any possibility to borrow >the use an MIT computer when I arrived? If firm dates can be arranged by >September it would help, because there are several dates which I have to commit >myself to being here on, but if I know in advance when to avoid I have a better >chance. > >Best wishes, >Roberto Roberto, Typically, most ACM tournaments try to provide some loaners for the contestants. The world championship always has. They would try to get several identical machines that were pretty fast. I don't think you will have to worry about getting a machine. In most of these tournaments 60 or 70 percent are running on the same provided hardware, a few bring their own and the rest are remote machines. To the extent I am able, I want to push for the tournament to be as low cost as possible for the contestants. But the World computer chess championship has a long tradition of paying for airline tickets, no entry fee and paying for rooms. I do not know if they will be able to do that this time. If they cannot, then I will still try to help us keep the costs down. My goal is to get as many to come as possible. - Don
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